Author Topic: Heron's Aeolipile  (Read 82690 times)

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2009, 04:58:27 AM »
Hey everyone
HAPPY NEW YEAR!


WOW looks awesome.. very beautiful. I think the shape is perfect!!!

I was watching that original clip and think that would be a fun project...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8292524307449042055&ei=JJJcSa2nG5C8rALh5qyUCQ&hl=en
The other one didnt work for me either..  :scratch:
SPiN Racing

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #76 on: January 01, 2009, 05:50:00 AM »
Hi Ralph

Just had another look at your photos:- you could try spinning the crinkles out on the nylon ball set up, just replace the cutting tool with a roller of some type. Just spoke to John he say's your popping over tomorrow, I'm going out for a walk tomorrow morning and liquid lunch  :beer: with some work friends, if I get back in time I may pop round, it would be nice to meet up.

Cheers
 :wave:
Stew
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Offline Darren

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2009, 07:02:43 AM »
Way to go boss...... :headbang:

What wrong with it Ralph, I was looking at the ball thinking you've cracked it. OK so not a true sphere, like Bogs says, any rule that says it has to be.

You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2009, 07:31:05 AM »
Now about forming this cubed shaped one and having it spinning corner to corner, with four jets, one on each remaining corner.

Remind me tomorrow, and I will let you have a bit of brass box section to play with.

Bogs

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2009, 10:37:09 AM »
Whoooa!!.... Lots to say to all those responces!....

Firstly thank you to all.... Positive comments are always good to receive  :)


Eric, as I said in a recent P.M. .... What's wrong with odd shaped balls!!  :lol:



John, I quite like it's odd shape... As you said "special"   like me!  :thumbup:

The square idea sounds fun too.... It's yours so you should probably build it!? .... I can still have a go at one too though  :)



Stew, The sheet was anealed, it was also lubed with 3in1 oil.... Not slippy enough?

I already increased the radius on the die to about 2.5mm ish (from 1.5mm ish. skimmed a little and finished with emery)

I'm thinking of a little radius on the outer edge of the die too... The marks are visible where the rippling caught and dragged on the 90' edge of the die.

I couldn't have put more pressure on than with the no springs attempt...it bent the plate upwards by about 5mm!!!  But I will polish the plate and try it all again when the copper gets here.

I'm not too sure about the spinning idea though.... Not with such a rippled surface, I think it could spell  "i n j u r y "!  I have modified the nylon form slightly since the picture, I wanted to get a clean edge so now the dome of the arbour does not meet the back edge of the hemisphere by about 3mm, allowing a neat trim off and de-burr of the part.
Thant's not to sat I can't make another one.... I've got another 2 pieces of that nylon  :dremel:

I'll be at Johns around 1 ish, If true to form I could be there for a little while !!  :)  If you manage to make an apperance, that will be a bonus to the day I'm sure  :thumbup:



Scott, sorry , still not working!? ... Fun project yes.... But it sure is hard work!! I love it!  :thumbup:



Darren, Not a true sphere!!  It looks like an over inflated rugby ball!!!  :lol: I'm still going to use it... We all need prototypes when designing fun stuff.... Most of my finished one offs are prototypes that just worked!!  :D

The thing is I want to make a few of these.... They will all have their little diferences, but I want to have a go at a mini production run!! Don't know what to do with them once I get it all sorted, probably birthday and Xmas prezzies of the future, my friends will all be sick of them   :lol:



Well out to the shop for a bit, Might do a little on my finger engines today... For a little break :)


Once again, Thank you all for the great comments and guidence.


Ralph.


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Offline rleete

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2009, 11:09:22 AM »
Neat project.  Personally, I really like the shape; it adds character.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #81 on: January 01, 2009, 12:19:49 PM »
Whoooa!!.... Lots to say to all those responces!....

Eric, as I said in a recent P.M. .... What's wrong with odd shaped balls!!  :lol:

....

Ralph.


Nothing wrong with an odd ball....      :lol:

Kinda like you... oddball.  :lol:

all in fun ofc.
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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #82 on: January 01, 2009, 07:20:34 PM »
Roger,

Glad you like the current project, and the shape, well that's proving to be ok too  :)  I may have to make all future ones that way if the softer copper doesn't play nicely  :scratch:


Eric,

Good job I can take a joke.... Just wait till I get the chance to return it.... I'll be all like whitty an' stuff!!  ::)


No progress on this till I get the new parts.... Next week I suppose... Been spending this evening designing and making jigs for my finger engine attempts! I'll post them when completed....I'll give the keys to my photo album (well the link!) and anyone interested can root through all the pics they like!



Ralph.

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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #83 on: January 01, 2009, 08:37:57 PM »

No progress on this till I get the new parts.... Next week I suppose... Been spending this evening designing and making jigs for my finger engine attempts! I'll post them when completed....I'll give the keys to my photo album (well the link!) and anyone interested can root through all the pics they like!


Looking forward to the link.

BTW, I think what you have done so far is outstanding. Actually pressing the shapes... how cool is that??

Eric
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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #84 on: January 01, 2009, 09:19:45 PM »
I could give the link now.... But I think I'd like a little more progress on them first    :dremel: 

I'm really pleased with the current outcome, I'm just trying to figure out how to mount the little blighter!!??

I've been drawing, screwing up and drawing some more this evening..... :coffee:  I might have to go for the executive mounting system... The one which costs a bomb in materials!!!

I'm struggling to envision the frame between wire and full barstock... I'll get there  :smart: 

No CNC here.... This has all to be manually created and preferably repeatable!  So not too many fancy latice works coming from this direction!



Right.... Off to bed I think! Got to drive over to see John tomorrow  :)




Ralph.


Ha!!! So much for off to bed.... I was reading through the post before I let it fee and suddenly thought of a reasonably quick and not too expensive mounting idea... Who says you can't think straight at 2:00am!!!   :thumbup:  So I've just drawn it up.... Used a ruler and compasses and everything! I must be mad! (Don't bother with the answer to that!!)

Now I'm going to bed!  :D
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

bogstandard

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #85 on: January 01, 2009, 09:58:24 PM »
Ralph,

If you read this before you start out.

Think about thick (or thin) perspex for part of the framework (not where it gets hot), remind me later, and I will give you a large piece. Also, don't forget your USB pendrive.

John

Offline Bernd

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2009, 11:21:31 AM »
Well late to the party as usual.

Nice use of the ally plate there Ralph. Works great right?  :thumbup:

I think that ball turned out quite nice. Yes, it's a wee bit off, but it gives it character. :)

I remember seening deep drawing at work one time. They had a 500 ton press. The parts they were making looked like a round pot about 12" deep. The material also wrinkeled. I think you just need to provide for that in your material.

Here's an idea for your frame work. Have ever thought of using a procedure called fret work? If not I can provide some pics of work I have done. This work calls for many pieces to be made of the same pattern. All you would need to do is draw a master pattern and then make copies. Glue the copies on your metal and proceed to cut out the pattern.

Keep up the great work your doing on this.  :dremel:  :thumbup:

Bernd
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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2009, 10:55:15 PM »
Better late than never Bernd  :wave:



I'm getting ready for the copper test before I do any more changes... Other than those I have desribed I will be doing... If that does not work I will be going to pressing through a ring or between plates....Things that have been suggested a few times...I've not been ignoring any advise, I just want to exhaust my first try first  :thumbup:
 It's all a big learning curve  :smart:  And it's quite good fun acctually   :)



Now then... This fret work... You have my attention!  Sounds like it could be difficult though?


The work will hopefully carry on end of next week? .... We will see :dremel:






Ralph.


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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2009, 09:33:35 PM »
Ok.... So I made a short vid to do two things,

1, allow me to display it in the video posting topic I'm writing up and,

2, show the ball turner making the punch for this project.... The die made at Bog's shop is next for the video treatment  :thumbup:




http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IAl7_aGHgtI



That's it for now, I have a videos topic to finish!!



Hope you like the vid?


Ralph.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:22:25 AM by Divided he ad »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2009, 06:47:39 AM »
Wow Ralph,

Again you make a nice vid, sure you're not in the profession?

And who's this Andy Martin chap, that was some nice playing there.
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2009, 07:50:12 AM »
Peter... Try this one,

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=282.0

I made it a few months ago and hsven't fully dedicated time to learning it's full potential, I will one day  :)



Darren,

Only one profession as such.... Mechahackanicing and I don't even do that anymore!  (much!)

The vid's will be looking a little differently soon... Got a new proggy to try out  :thumbup:

Andy Martin is a busker from the Chester area and can be seen or more importantly heard playing in the city centre most weekends of the year. He sells a CD which I purchased and he was quite happy for me to use his recordings on my videos.... So I did!  You can find a vid' of him on youtube posted by chestertourist___  I can't recall the rest!!

But it is out there.

I might even have a video in my files somewhere? I'll have to have a look!


Glad you liked it anyway :)


Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline dsquire

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2009, 02:55:13 PM »
Ralph

I found this picture and thought of you. Here is the title of the book that it came from. I downloaded it as a *.pdf file from google.

A Descriptive History of the Steam Engine by Robert Stuart, ESQ, 3rd Edition MDCCCXXIV.

If you need more info let me know.

cheers :beer:

Don
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Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2009, 03:17:20 PM »
Awesome vid.

I really need to make some sort of Camera mount. That looks really sweet the way you do those.
Very professional.

Matter of fact.. Well before I found this site, I found your video clips.

I have some out there myself.. but they are not machining ones.. just some car stuff. http://www.youtube.com/spinracing


Scott
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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2009, 07:03:45 PM »
Don,

I have just two issues with the pic'..... First I know I don't have the tallent to make some of those lions!! And, I have no idea where to get a tiny Quasimodo impersonator??!?  :lol:


Seriously though, Thank you for the book info' I will look it up. If it is a good read and not to expensive I can alwasy purchase it (got to be under a tenner these days though!



Scott,

I'm glad you like the vid' I've got a couple more to make soon.

I've seen your vid's before... I always check out the pages of all of the people who subscribe to my videos.... I still can't believe there are 70+ of you out there who want to see any new stuff I make.... Very humbling and adds a bit of extra pressure when you come to make another vid'!!


I have to say I prefer the 'vette over the RX7... I like the Muscle cars  :)   Specifically the Dodge Charger and Challenger.... But the New Charger has my current vote... 6.1 HEMI.... Oh yes please!!! 
This beastie!!!



Yer I know way, way  :offtopic:  But it's my thread and I'll wander all I like.... Where's that sticking your tongue out smiley??  :lol:



A camera mount isn't a hard build, I made mine in the same evening I made the original ball turning vid' I needed to hold the camera still and use both hands on the lathe... So I made it first  :dremel: 


I think I posted it in the gallery? If not I can always do so.



Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2009, 07:48:44 PM »
Yep the camera mount is out there in teh builds someplace :)

The honking big dodge is a beast of a car.

The state troopers (highway patrol who chase down the baddies) are now all running the black on black with black tinted windows.
Mean mothers.. with hidden lights and stuff.

I gather you can order them from Dodge with the police package and they have quite a few treats to make them faster and more robust. :)


I have a 91 RX-7 at the house here I put a new motor in.. but Im twiddling my thumbs trying to decide if I am going to assemble one of the two V8s I have in the garage......
Small Journal 327, and a 383 chevy... that needs a crank. I have some high flowing 202-160 heads with big runners, and roller rockers sitting on the shelf. And I have been trying to decide which motor to put them on.
Then what transmission to use... I have a TH350 with a manual valve body.. and a 200R4 with a kit in it.....   But I really would rather have a T-56.

realistically.. Im holding off doing anything cause Im finishing the main project car atm.
1988 RX-7 with... well... Everything.
Big brakes, full 8 point rollcage, momo seats, 5 point harnesses, fuel cell, 3" to dual 3" styainless exhaust.. with 5" mufflers. Widebody (still to be bought/made)
And the fun.. a 3-Rotor engine from a Japanese Cosmo that now has a single T-66 Turbo on it. (Picture something oversized for a.. Lorry? or 18 wheeler) Big huge fuel system, and a stand alone, Wolf 3D 4 Plus, Engine management system I need to program.
oh yeah.. all the plumbing is braided, inclusing radiator lines.. which are -20 braided.

I was originally a suspension upgrade.
10 years later EVERYTHING has been changed except for the shell. Some things 3 times. (went from a 4 lug IRS rearend.. to a 5 Lug, to a bigger 5-lug.)
SPiN Racing

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2009, 08:15:38 PM »
 :offtopic:

oooh the black Charger is sweet. I wanted one, but not enough room for me and all the junk I haul. I will just have to keep my Dodge Magnum:



*not a picture of mine... same color though


Back to the topic
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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2009, 01:02:06 PM »
Just a little more  :offtopic: Then I promise I will steer it back next post!!!  :)



Scott.... You just used so many American words for thing I know the real words for it's not funny!!!!! ... Well actually I think it is!! :lol: 

Quote
I have some high flowing 202-160 heads with big runners, and roller rockers sitting on the shelf. And I have been trying to decide which motor to put them on.
Then what transmission to use... I have a TH350 with a manual valve body.. and a 200R4 with a kit in it.....   But I really would rather have a T-56.

And ....

Quote
(went from a 4 lug IRS rearend.. to a 5 Lug, to a bigger 5-lug.)

I'm lost.... And I fixed cars for a long time!!! (British ones with English named parts :lol: )

I can figure some of it out, but....202-160 heads?  Big runners? TH350, 200R4, T-56 (turbo?)?  and  'X' lug IRS? ... Not being too thick here am I....? Just never heard of the terms!!


Ahh!! justy got one IRS, independent rear suspension... That makes lugs wheel nuts!   :thumbup:






Eric,


 Motor envy is not what I needed this evening  :bugeye:  Sweet beast!!! No wonder you guys don't mind traveling for many hours to visit rellies!


And all I got is a Renault!!!!  :(




Ralph.

I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2009, 06:53:21 PM »
Quote
I have some high flowing 202-160 heads with big runners, and roller rockers sitting on the shelf. And I have been trying to decide which motor to put them on.
Then what transmission to use... I have a TH350 with a manual valve body.. and a 200R4 with a kit in it.....   But I really would rather have a T-56.
He he he he he he.
Ok :)
202 intake.. in reference to the intake Valves. 2.02". 160.. being 1.60" Exhaust valves.
Big Runners.. meaning that the intake and exhaust runners in the heads are very large bore. IE Good overall volume through them. And best for Higher RPM use.
Roller-Rockers Meaning the Rocker Arms have tips that press the valves with hardened roller bearing tips on them.

Transmissions are GM Turbo Hydramatic 350. TH350. Manual Valve Body meaning that it no longer shifts Automatically. You put it in a gear and it stays there.
GM Turbo Hydramatic 200R4. Is a 4 Speed Overdrive transmission considered a "Metric" tranny. It was used in the Buick Regal Grand National.. that had the Turbo 6 Cylinder in it. Doesnt handle overall power as well. But it is a overdrive tranny.. so there is a hint of mileage. Kit.. meaning a shift kit, causing much firmer shifts that will shred the tires on upshifts.
T-56 being the 6-speed manual transmission used in cars such as the Mustang Cobras, Camaros, Corvettes, Vipers, GTOs etc.


Quote
(went from a 4 lug IRS rearend.. to a 5 Lug, to a bigger 5-lug.)
That would be moving from a 4 lug wheel hub, to a 5 Lugs wheel hub. And then a Stronger axle 5 Lug rearend assembly. And this is also a IRS, Independent Rear Suspension.
(Of course the entire rear subframe has everything tied into it, and needs changed each time)




And all I got is a Renault!!!!  :(

Ralph.

RENAULT!!!  ooooh we dont have many Renaults here in the colonies.  Most are some sort of tiny econobox that is complete crap... Mid-80s stuff. Alliance I think it was?

NOW... Give me a R5 Turbo.. or any of the other small Hatch back ones I have seen in the rallys.. I would be a happy camper.

Granted I have never owned one, or worked on one.. so I could be speaking like a moron.


:)
SPiN Racing

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2009, 08:41:06 AM »
One last bit on the  :offtopic: section..... Scott, Don't go to the Renault 5 GT turbo's.... You'll regret it!


Now...... On with the real topic!!


I finally got to spend a few hours in the 'shop yesterday, I got a little busy with re-design and testing, here is what I got upto.....

Warning!!...   This post is going to be a monster... With lots of big pic's!!!

So, Go with advise received and polish the clamp plate up a bit



Then make a riser for the die (deepener really but that don't not sound right!?!) 




This may not look like much but my boring skills were lacking.... So after a little tutorial from Bog's when I saw him last I had a go.... Worked well John  :thumbup:



Once the part was the right ecternal for the die it was drilled for 4 dowels as was the die.




The top edge was bevelled to try to avoid the grabbing experienced in earlier attempts. Then the two parts were pressed together.




Now the bit I've been waiting for.... Test!  I purchased some copper sheet 6x3" in 3 different thicknesses 0.9, 0.7 and 0.5mm. I thought I'd stary with the thinnest one first, so I sheered a 3x3" square off and drilled the 4mm hole in the centre for the pin. I then annealed the sheet (noticably more malleable than the brass) and set it up in the press (as per earlier pic's with the springs)

Then a couple of stamps later....



A bloody big split!!!

Not to be disheartened I tried the 0.7mm sheet. This also started to split, at the hole! So the next logical step... No hole!

I removed the locating pin from the punch and tried another 0.5mm sheet. This time with no hole in it and lined up by eye, also after the last two attempts I decided to press this one hot, got it to a cherry red just before clamping it into position.

The result...


From left to right, the first attempt split. The second attempt splitting before the form was complete and finally the last attempt. The conclusion I need to start with a 4" square/circle and then press it hot and without a locating pin/hole.




"But wait" he says There's more.... I also had a bit of fun with the prototype shape already created....

A taper bored central axis was made and then soft soldered into the shape,



An internally threaded part was also soldered into the opposite hole for a filler plug to be screwed into (localised heat used to save de-soldering the shape at it's seam.)



Then on a tangent (whilst waiting for the shape to cool down) I made a little mod to the punch head, A small brass rod was friction fitted into the hole left by the pin. This was then shaped into a very shallow dome with a hole in it's centre. The theory, it will hold the form in the centre whilst punching is being performed and might give a little relief for the drilling that will have to be performed after pressing now that the hole is not being drilled first.



Quick test in the better of the already pressed test forms...



Then onto the soon to be figured out jets.... After a discussion with Bog's a few months back, a small plan was devised to narrow the end of a small dia brass tube.
This is that plan, well my version of it anyway!

A hole drilled into a stainless rod was then reamed (in a fasion) out with a carbide tapered cutter. The use of plenty of trefolex helped this process (the first attept burned the teeth off the cutter!!) I used the whole tail stock to slide back and forth, use of the cutter like a drill will burn the teeth off it, it needs to be a push and retract action in quite quick succession.


A small test section of the tubing was cut and the very tip annealed, this was then held in the drill chuck lubricated and forced into the internal tapered rod. I used the tailstock lock and advanced the tub in using the tailstock screw (like drilling).





The result... A tapered jet  :thumbup:



Then just the addition of the screw in bung with a rubber 'O' ring and that was it for last night.... I'm getting there slowly!!  :)






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline HS93

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2009, 09:05:30 AM »
Have you thought of doing it in stages now there is no hole , Press half way then re anneal and finnish it off.

by the way its looking Good   :clap:

Just an idea

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure