Author Topic: Tiny Stirling Engine  (Read 49311 times)

Offline mklotz

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2010, 03:27:28 PM »
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that.  One needs to take into account the thickness of the chuck jaws.  There's a program on my page (ECCENT) that will do all the dirty work for you.
Regards, Marv

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Offline andyf

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2010, 05:12:26 PM »
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that.  One needs to take into account the thickness of the chuck jaws.  There's a program on my page (ECCENT) that will do all the dirty work for you.

Thanks, Marv. For me, life increasingly seems to be getting "a bit more complicated than that"  :scratch: :(

I have had a go with ECCENT. Does the "pack to 1.5 times the offset" idea only break down when the dimensions of the work couples with the required offset are such that the work is not being supported by the flat faces of the "other two" jaws, but by their sloping sides, or are there other complicating factors?

Yours curiously,
Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline mklotz

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2010, 07:08:24 PM »
Yes, as the work loses full contact with the two other jaws the geometry gets more complicated.
The program accounts for all this automatically.

For round stock, the ECCENTUB technique is much more stable since the work is fully supported on all three jaws.

None of these techniques are as good as the old four jaw, however.
Regards, Marv

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Offline NickG

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2010, 04:03:02 AM »
Thanks Andy and Marv - I completely neglected the fact that with the packing, the jaws have to open further - I just don't seem to be thinking straight at the moment. Now I've come to think of it I'm sure someone has shown me that page before Andy, it's amazing all this stuff I keep forgetting! Marv, I'll definitely be using eccent for the next one, thanks. I guess you'd have to be careful with smaller stock as there is quite a radius on the gripping face of my jaws.
Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2010, 08:53:12 AM »
Hi Nick, I just wanted to chime in, I have never crossed that page, and never really considered the whole issue geometrically, and thus my answer was wrong, as well.  I've let the problem be an issue without ever solving it, and Andy was very helpful in clearing my head on this as well, if you don't mind my using your post to thank him.  I think I will book mark that page, and have it when I need it.  By the way, what program are you using to draw your designs with, if you don't mind my asking?  I see them in the background and they look simple, but very nicely done.  I wouldn't mind something more than scribblings on scratch paper, for drawings, sometimes intricate details don't get down on the scratch paper and get missed.  By the by, with the LTD stirlings, the longer you make the displacer rod tube, the more effective it is in sealing, if you've got it reamed well, as John described, and if the rod is ground and polished.  I don't know how far your Dad lives from you, but if you built the engine again, and fixed all the little issues it has, you could probably trade it out without letting him know, and let him have one that runs, after you work out all the bugs.  I was hoping to do several presents this Christmas with small engines, but the flood sort of took up the past couple months, and I ended up with gift cards - nothing like the same.  Keep posting and let's see a runner soon  :poke: mad jack

Offline NickG

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2010, 07:59:48 AM »
Hi Madjack,

I did the same as you, but at least you didn't just think sticking in packing the thickness off the desired offset would work!  :bang:

The drawing package I use is called Alibre Design. It's free to download a trial version but there are limitations, then about a year or so ago an offer came up to get the full version for £99 so I hmm'd and arr'd about it for a while and then bit the bullet. I am a design engineer by trade (although we don't actually do that much new design as such at present times) and at work we use a similar package called unigraphics which costs many thousands of pounds, but this little one seems to do all the basics just as well, and in fact it's  more user friendly so for £99 it was somewhat of a bargain.

It is a 3D CAD package - not sure whether you have come across these before but  essentially you create  each individual part in 3 dimensions (models) - starting with a primitive solid (cylinder or cube) or a sketch which is extruded, then adding bit by bit all the features to it. Once you have done all of the parts you then create an assembly or sub-assemblies if required and give them mating constraints to put them together - this comes easy for us engineering-y types because you think about how the assembly works and it gives you a clue as to what mating constraint you need. Doing this correctly has the advantage that the final assembly will be left with the correct degrees of freedom the actual model would, which means you can animate it - for example I can grab the flywheel on mine and turn it over, all the other pieces will turn over with it as they should in real life. This can show up if you've made a boo-boo and get contact, you can get pretty complex with it but I'm not a draughtsman so I try to keep it simple.

Anyway, once you've got the 3D model of each part, the package will then generate 2D views of that part and will automatically dimension them if you wish, I usually dimension myself as the system will probably do it any old how (probably in line with some convention or standard actually but not the way I would do it necessarily). As I said, I've kept my models simple, I haven't put any chamfers or radii on as all this transfers to the drawing and takes up more memory. Also, I don't have a plotter, only an A4 printer so for clarity I can't put mega detail into the drawing.

The reason I got the package is that my scribblings are just too scribbley for me to understand - I'll forget what I have scribbled! When I first got the package I ideally wanted to fully tolerance all the drawings so that anybody could make any part and it'd still go together and work -  but that turned out to be a huge job and is not generally seen in model engineering.

Back to the tiny stirling, that was the idea with the thick top plate - the displacer rod guide is relatively long - as you say, helping with sealing, but the rod I had was not ground - just stainless I think and the hole was just drilled with the nearest number drill which I don't think was good enough. On my other stirling I just drilled the guide but It had a screw in bit so there was provision to put some graphited yarn in there and it was ground because it was 1/8" rod rather than 1/16". I'll have to see whether you can get 1/16" silver steel - can you get 1/16" reamers?

My dad just lives around the corner and I know where it is, in his glass book case so your idea is entirely possible!

I think I want to get back onto my poppin flame sucker / licker / gulper next and get those done which are not that far off - the broken machine vice stopped them, then I got  :proj: and started jumping about. Then I'll re-visit the stirling as I think it's a nice design (if I say so myself) that other people could do if I iron out these bugs.

Thanks for the interest,

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2010, 10:47:49 AM »
Hi Nick, your reason for going with the drawing program sounds exactly like my reasons for being interested, some of the niggling little details occasionally get lost from the house to the shop.  I'll take a look at the program and see what it looks like, working with it. I was once a pretty fair draftsman, many long years ago, but too much time in the machine shop ruined me.
   A trick I've used when a reamer isn't around is to take a new drill bit of good quality, and with magnifying googles, stone a radius on each of the corners of the two cutting lips.  With extreme care, getting both radii equal, it will work almost as well as a real reamer.  They do have sixteenth in reamers though, and if you want, I'll look through my pile and see if I've got one.  I bought a large assortment from the son of a machinist and it included many very small reamers.  If I find one .062, I can post it to you, and some sixteenth drill rod as well, if you'd like.  I'll let you know about the reamer tomorrow, after I've looked through my box.  :thumbup: jack

Offline NickG

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2010, 02:33:52 PM »
Many thanks for the offer Jack but please don't go to any trouble. If the reamer and drill rod are available I should have novtrouble getting them. Will have a look tomorrow. It's worth a try of the trial version of that software and keep an eye out invade the offer comes back up.
Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Tiny Stirling Engine
« Reply #83 on: January 01, 2011, 10:03:59 AM »
Hi Nick,  I don't have that reamer, but my catalogs show reamers down to 3/64ths, and I definitely have drill rod that is a sixteenth, so it is available.  If you do have difficulty getting such a reamer, let me know and I'd be glad to help out, no problem at all.  mad jack