hello

[chalkedup]

just thought id say hello 
ive been reading up on here for a bit so decided to register as it seems a friendly forum.
im just in the middle of selling off all my belongings  to get enough money up for a cheep lathe and mill as i think it will be something i will enjoy and give me something to get my teeth into.
ive decided to get the mill and lathe from amadeal after much umming and arring, deciding on one then changing my mind yet again. 

i was just wondering if the tooling he sells is a wise purchase or should i buy elsewhere, things like the tap and die sets and vices aswell as the actual tools themselves as i dont have much money to spend so id prefer to get it right first time to save replacing a few months/years down the line.
plus i need to buy most of it now while ive got the money.

all the best
chalkedup

[Brass_Machine]

Hi there 

Welcome to the collective

Can't help you on the tooling as I am not familiar with the company... other side of the pond and all. Someone here should know though.

Whatcha into?

Eric

[Divided he ad]

Hi Chalkedup 

As said "Welcome to the collective  "

We are a reasonable bunch and as such we will most probably confuse you for a bit with loads of advice on what you need and where to get it from....  The following is ONLY MY OPINION Not fact etc.... I have to state that before I upset anyone.

I don't know what size machinery you are looking for so it makes it hard to help in that dept.

Amadeal I'm not too sure about, never purchased any from there. I'm not liking the vague descriptions on tooling etc (just me, I don't know why?  I just don't like em?) It's probably more than adequate. I just don't like the writing 

Need reports off anyone who has purchased their stuff?



Milling:-

Depending on what is with the machine, drill chuck, draw bar? you will need some basics to hold the work and then re-shape it.
I have my vice and rotary table from the Vertex K series range (black, but I think they might have changed colour?) They are solid and work perfectly well for myself and I know Bog's has them too.

The milling machine tool holding, I'd look at an ER32 set if you're getting a machine that can take the reduced height (again down to machine choice?)

Milling cutters... End mills, there are literally thousands to choose from, all for different tasks in metric and imperial, long and short shanks and then different multiples of flutes. To help confuse, there are slot drills which look similar but are not the same ( there are plenty of bits around stating what and why)    It all depends on what you are going to make as to what might be a good set of starting tools.   All down to more info 


Lathe:-

Depending on what comes with the machine.... I'd get a set of Glanze indexable tooling (tool shank size dependant on the lathe size) I say Glanze because it's what I purchased after the cheap ones I purchased were totally 5h17! 

Of course you should also look into some HSS tools too... I just haven't perfected my tool grinding and I'm going to assume you haven't either? It is something we should all try to do and get reasonably good at 

(there's a company out there that sells lathes etc all painted in blue... I did have their card but I can't place it? I remember how much cheaper they were than everyone else selling the same 9x20 machine as I have... Anyone got any clues?)




I'm not trying to scare you... Just letting you know the deal.

 I got my machines and never realised that it was the tooling that cost the big money. My lathe cost around £1000.00 the tooling I had for it in the first few months easily equalled that and now far exceeds it! Once I figured out what I needed to get me turning the parts I wanted to I targeted those tools first and just saved and slowly purchased (got donations of  )  the rest.


The milling machine I had to buy second hand because I just couldn't afford a new one.... the tooling cost a huge amount too,clamping kit £35, vice £70+, basic end mills and slot drills ~£50, MT3 collets £7 each, later ER32 collets set ~£100, shortly followed by a rotary table £125 and soon to be followed by digital readouts £400+!

my Champion mill did me for over 2 years and only got replaced (still got it in the garage though  ) cause a slightly bigger machine came up for offer, still second (or actually 4th ) hand, works really well too.




I know, no help....  just made this happen.... 


It's things you will have to consider is all... You won't need all that I have listed immediately that's true. I'm just letting you know what I found out as I entered the hobby   


Any further advice.... I know, you'll avoid me



I'm sure others will have their opinions and might shout at me for scaring you? (not my aim, honestly)  It's just my opinion based on my experiences.





Ralph.


I know, apologies for the huge post 

[chalkedup]

thanks for the warm welcome lads
no need for a apology for a long post its good of you to take the time 

basically i want to make anything and everything i can lol ive always had plenty of ideas but never had a way to make them.
im planning on making fishing gear things like posh banksticks,bits and bobs,probably some pipes and things along those lines.

ive been reading up alot and watching videos for weeks solid so know a little bit about tooling and what i will need and the different types of milling, ive also bought two books one is milling a complete course by harrold hall and the others lathes a complete course by harrold hall there ok but not ideal as i was hoping for some reference on types of metal and things like hole/drilling/tapping tollerances.
i know you should let the machine tell you what kind of cut is acceptable but a starting figure to say 1/4 due to having a smaller machine plus speeds and feeds would be a help.
so a recommendation for a good book would be great too, i was thinking machinerys handbook would probably be ideal although a bit pricey.

im leaning towards getting the CJ18 lathe and the XJ12-300 mill and hoping i get a good one that doesnt need too much work.
i have a garage but it gets a bit damp so id prefer not to put these machines in there so they will be going in my bedroom so size is important aswell as the weight and electric use, anything like cutting/grinding will be going in the garage.

the banksticks will be 316 stainless steel, the main thing will be putting threads on them im hoping the lathe is up to it im in no hurry and know i wont be able to make deep cuts,there wont be much milling needed just the odd hole and threading by taps.
other than that i will just be using aluminium,ptfe,delrin and a bit of brass.
will the above machines be able to do that?

im hoping to be able to sharpen the tooling myself to save repeatedly buying tools so il also need something cheap that will do that too.

i know many will say get a bigger machine but money is limited and i know tooling will be beyond what the machines cost

thanks in advance
 

[Bogstandard]

Chalkedup,

At least you have a good idea about machine compared to tooling costs. A lot of people don't, and when that happens, they either get heavily into debt, or just give up on the idea and sell what they have at a great loss.

Only buy necessities to begin with, then birthdays, christmas and bonuses can get the rest.

You will learn to be a lot more adaptable when you only have a little tooling, making do most times.

But never sacrifice safety just to get a job done, it is better to wait a while until you can get the right bits.

Digits, limbs and eyes are rather difficult to grow back again, and even more difficult to live without.


Bogs

[chalkedup]

hello bogs
i 100% agree on adapting it keeps the brain working on ways to improvise.
safety was one of the first things i started reading up on, ive got a ponytail thats halfway down my back and i am in to the safety side of things so much its all coming off, they say at the end of every ponytail is a horses ar$3 
i dont think i will ever sell it this is more a long term thing for me as i love learning new things and i think this will be the perfect hobby for me to do that.
your thread on fixing darrens lathe was very helpful too so i hope to be able to take some ideas from that although i certainly wont be machining any part of the bed and fingers crossed they have got it down a bit more by now.

all the best

[raynerd]

Hello 

Have you considered second hand. I`ve only purchased a few of my "bigger" bits from new, infact a rotary table and everything else is seconds. My mill is lovely, purchased for Matt, a poster on here. He`d stepped up to a X3 bigger mill so I got his at a good price, almost half of new and it was just as good as new! My lathe is old and most definately second hand - probably more like 3,4 or even more! I`ve done a bit of work on it because I wanted to but it is solid, well made and ran well from the word go. I`ve purchased the Glanze set and enjoy using the tipped tools, but now I`ve figured out how to grind HSS I think they cut better in some situations - ALL my HSS has come when I`ve purchased second hand tools and i`ve got a box full of HSS, so in theory hardly paid anything for my cutting tools!! 

Don`t get me wrong, I must have spent a fortune on tooling over the last few years but nothing like I would if I`d have purchased new and another thing, when you come to sell it (if you don`t use it as I have done with the odd bits and bats), provided in good condition, you normally get back what you have paid.

I`m clearly a tight arse, but I wouldn`t hesitate in purchasing future machines second hand - obviously, you just have to avoid the "heaps" of which there are many.
Chris

[chalkedup]

hello craynerd
i have thought about second hand but there doesnt seem to be many mini machines about, seen a fair few bigger ones on ebay but its transporting them plus they would need to go in the garage and possibly need work doing to them or things replacing which would soon add up.
i figure atleast with a new machine i know it hasnt been hammered and its most likely better produced than the same older model.
plus the newer machines seem to have other improvements although like you say you dont get the extras with a new machine.
in a way i would like to start off on a fresh footing for peace of mind.