Removing a hex bolt that has been rounded

[raynerd]

Hi guys

Hoping someone could help me out. I`ve got a motorbike, a CG125 to learn on a few days ago. I went to change the oil today and found that the large 24mm hex bolt which is the plug has been properly rounded off and my socket just slips off when I exhurt some pressure on it - it also seems pretty stuck on as well which doesn`t help. Has anyone any suggestions as to methods of removing it? I`m struggling to find a replacement so ideally I don`t want to destroy it removing it as I may need to use it again.

Chris

[mklotz]

Vise-grips (I think you lot call them Mole-grips or some such).

After you get it off stick it in the mill and carve some flats into it to fit a standard wrench size.

[bry1975]

If it's safe can you heat the part up?

Regs

Bry

[kwackers]

Order a new bolt. Couple of quid and the bike shop will have on for you within a couple of days.
Once it's here you can use whatever means you like to remove the old one.

[raynerd]

Marv, already tried mole-grips and I can`t get them around the bolt because of the position it is in.

Bry, yea, I heard heating up worked so I took it on a long spin and it was really hot, still wouldn`t move. It isn`t just the fact it is locked on but I can`t get any torque, my socket just slips off due to the rounded hole.

Kwackers - I think that is my best bet but I`ve googled and can`t find them for sale. I don`t know what thread it`ll be on them - it is certainly a 24mm socket - does that directly tell me the thread on it. I have the haynes manual infront of me and can`t see anything about the thread. I don`t fancy conceeding and taking it into the garage. The hole point of me eventually going for a cg125 was because it would cost me nothing other than parts in terms of maintainince as I`d do it all - I`ve clearly fallen at the most simplest of hurdles!

If I can get it off like Marv said, I can mill it down to a standard socket size...it is just getting the ba!$$!!d off!

Chris

[Bluechip]

Chris

Poke two holes in it, then lash up a pin spanner to fit. Either from flat or on the end of some round bar.

If it's knacked you'll need a new one anyway, Cannot imagine it's impossible to get bits for a CG125. The planet was knee deep in 'em. 

Dave BC

[kwackers]

Just ring a bike shop and order one - or (heaven forbid) call in! If you're going to do your own maintenance then ringing bike shops is probably a skill you need to learn. ;-)

Assuming it's the bolt that holds the oil filter in place you want the real McCoy anyway. Chances are it's not an ordinary bolt, probably has oil ways machined into it.

Once you have one to hand there are a number of things you can do (depending on access). You could drill it and use a 'tommy bar', you could do my usual which is to use a chisel at an angle along with a small hammer and 'tap' it round (lightly!) or file some flats and use a spanner. You could even file the head off to release the oil filter and then use mole grips on the shaft. Have a look in the Haynes manual to see what it looks like under there.

[Sorekiwi]

If you are using a 12 point socket, you might try a 6 point socket.

Another thought, a 15/16 socket is 23.8mm, maybe you can tap that onto the plug?  Again a 6 point would be better.

[Ned Ludd]

Hi Chris,
Have you got a six point socket or is it the more usual twelve point? The six point, by this I mean it has just a hexagon hole which fits the bolt, is much better for gripping soft-ish alloy caps like an oil drain plug.
Buy a new one, any Honda shop should be able to get one next day or perhaps the day after, then carefully tap the old one around with a hammer and chisel/punch. When using this method, on the underside of an engine, it is all too easy to try to turn the thing the wrong way, especially if you are new to the game. I don't wish to impugn your abilities but are you sure you are in fact un-doing the cap, remember if it under the engine it appears, from the top, to go he other way.
Ned
PS sorry for overlap of six point sockets.

[Brass_Machine]

Most Honda shops should have a replacement without having to order you one.

You may end up either having to spend some money or dropping the engine the engine to get that bolt out. Personally, I would get some sockets that are designed to remove rounded bolts. They come in handy... I have 2 sets, each a different style. The first is designed to grip the bolt on the flats.

IE:

Grip-Tite Sockets

The other set I have, is a reverse screw socket. Not sure of the brand, I will check them and see. The principle is, as the socket spins on the head of the bolt, the socket tightens its grip on the bolt.

Eric

[John Hill]

How about some way to stop the socket jumping off?

For example, if the bung is on the bottom of the bike pack some blocks of wood under there until the weight of the bike is holding the socket on,  if the bung is on the side of the bike you might be able to lean the bike against the socket which in turn is being braced by a handy fence post?  

Play it safe and do not let the bike fall over!

[Ned Ludd]

Very interesting link that, but I still like the right size spanner or socket as first choice.
I used similar technology to make a tool for removing seized pistons in motor-cycle brake calipers, the harder you turn the harder it grips and once you get the piston turning you can pull too.
Ned

[jim]

had the same trouble with my CG125, (i'm putting a sidecar on it , its a long story)

get the engine warm, give it a "tap" square to the face. then a good tap with a chisel. to turn the cap. mine came undone ok.

they don't need to be done up too tight, if you reuse the cap (i did) with a new o ring on it i just nipped it up and all is well again!

[Bourne Bill]

you can try putting a piece of shim stock over the flats on the bolt, and force a socket over it. It has worked for me in the past........

[kvom]

Another idea is to weld a good bolt onto the rounded one.

[j45on]

Did you get the sump bolt out then ?
  of your new bike

[raynerd]

Hi Guys, yes sorry I never replied. I`ve been a bit busy but I did read all your suggestions. I managed to remove it last night, I filed it down to fit a 22mm spanner and now it works fine. The alloy it is made from is like cheese, no wonder someone had rounded it. Believe this, it is so badly rounded that even taking 1mm off each side to get the 22mm bolt, it still looks a mess with rounded edges slight but the flats are good enough to get a good spanner onto. I`ve had to fit it back onto the bike as I need to use it but I don`t know if I can actually salvage it, I think the truth is I need a new plug. To be fair, with a good spanner it works just fine but it looks a mess. I could make one, but I don`t know what the thread is?

Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

[bry1975]

Hi chap,

Read this:-

http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=1652877

[Divided he ad]

Don't know bu663r all about bikes other than they fall over easy! 
but I do know "Mr.z"  at the end of that link has a comic way with the language   




Ralph.

[raynerd]

Booo --- I can`t read it - content blocked at my work!

Chris

[raynerd]

Just to add - ordered a new one, only £6 including postage and a new washer. When I said it was a soft alloy, I have since found out it is aluminium! No wonder it rounded, I`m guessing is was done by the dreaded adjustable but still, ally not the best material for a nut surely?

[kwackers]

It's not a structural part - it's just meant to stop the oil falling out. Just don't swing on it too hard.

[75Plus]

I spent several years in the automotive service industry. One of the the most puzzling things was why the oil drain plug was a constant problem. It appears that most "Do It Yourself" (Shadetree on this side of the Pond) mechanics thought that the drain plug was the ONLY thing that held the engine together and had to be TIGHT. There was even one "After Market" supplier that made an assortment of over sized, self tapping, plugs to replace the inevitable stripped ones. They were marked as #1,#2 ect. oversize.

Joe

[jim]

glad you got it sorted

[doubleboost]

Pleased you got it sorted
This is a common problem in the motor trade
Easiest way is to weld a big nut on to it the heat of welding helps

[Sorekiwi]

Now, I would have thought you'd put it in your fancy cnc controlled rotary table and cut a new hex on it! 

[raynerd]

HAha ... I would, but firstly it was so rounded that I`d have to take it down significantly to get a good shaped bolt on it. Secondly, I use to think people were really lazy for saying things like this but I`ve not had much shop time lately with work and such, so I`d much prefer to spend my time on one of my projects for the sake a £5 for a new one!

[andreas]

Hmmm....Kvom said it   I do that a lot on truck differentials and gearboxes draining screws,and sometimes it comes out by hand(make sure its cold!!!) Something you have to be careful is the ground lead,if you don`t want to mess electronics on the bike....Ground as near as possible were you going to weld. It`s also wise to remove the battery and short the terminal cables together while welding    

[bry1975]

Are any of you chaps into cold heading bolts?

[doubleboost]

Whenever i weld on a vehicle i put a surge protector across the battery (saves blowing ecu,s)
On most modern stuff you are going to run in to trouble disconnecting the battery
John