Thinking of a CNC Router Table Mad Mod

[Bernd]

In my thread on getting a new toy, ( CLICK here for that thread) a plasma cutter. I mentioned of eventually getting a CNC table to cut the sheet metal. That won't happen for another year. But I've gotten interested in a smaller table which I also mention in that thread, the Widgitmaster Mini.

I was thinking of making the whole thing as shown in those pictures. That has changed. I found something that I had forgotten I had. It was stored way in the back dark regions of the basement along with other "soon to be used items". 

Here are some pics and a bit of explanation.


I forgot I had this. I was going to send the glass scales and readout box to Darren but found out it would cost both of us an arm to two legs to get over the pond. I got this from a freind of my Dad's. It was some sort of table used to check, perhaps holes in a printed circuit board. It has very nice rails that run very freely on both the X & Y, plus a short travel Z axis.


Here's a close up of the Z axis. You can also see one of the bearing rollers on horizontal rail. Note the pointed part with the handle on it.


The only minor problem is with the clearence under the X axis rail. A little over 1.5" inches. This can be modified by putting blocks under the left rail (Y axis) to rasie the whole works up. But I think I'll give it a try as it is.

Since I already have the table hardware all set up. Oh by the way that is a cast iron table that the whole unit is bolted to. I was thinking all I need to do is buy a 3 axis drive system and mount it to this setup. I already have two mother boards coming, they should be here today, in anticipation of building the Wdigitmaster and then buying the CNC plasma table next year.

So more research is in order here. I'll report back when and if things will go in that direction.

Bernd

[Brass_Machine]

I remember that table.

Have you thought about what you are going to use for a spindle? Dremel? Router?

Eric

[Darren]

Eric, what would Bernd want with a spindle? 

[Brass_Machine]

Eric, what would Bernd want with a spindle?  

I had to go back and re-read the thread. For some reason I thought this was going to be a CNC router before he built the CNC plasma table. Doh!

Eric

*Edit*

Wait... Isn't the title of this post "Thinking of a CNC router table..."?

OK. I admit it. I am lost. 

[Bernd]

*Edit*

Wait... Isn't the title of this post "Thinking of a CNC router table..."?

OK. I admit it. I am lost. 

Eric,

I think your lost all the time.       

No, your right it says "router table". Actually it should probably be "engraving table" since the height is only 1.5". Not much of a "Z" axis. But then you don't need to go that high with an engraver.

I've been busy researching what kind of drives to use, servo's vs stepper's. From what I've gathered I think steppers are going to be the way to go. Then I need to find whether  I'm going to use ball screws or acme.

Stay tuned more to come.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Well I recieved the mother boards late this afternoon. Here's a couple of pics:



This is all that comes with the board.




Here's a closer view. The reason for these boards is that they have a printer port, the darker pink receptical next to the green and purple plug and above the yellow plug. This plug is used to plug in the break out board of the cnc controller.

Now these boards come without a CPU, the large black square area above the printer port. Also they don't have any memoery. That'll be the next items that need to be specked out, along with a power supply, hard drive, and keyboard. Don't know if I'll need a floppy drive or not. Time will tell.

Well it looks like I'm going to go for modding that table for a router/engraver. As I save my pennies and buy the parts I'll keep a log of this build.

Bernd

[Darren]

Sorry Eric/Bernd,

Now I'm confused .... Bernd what are you building? A plasma CNC or a router CNC?

[Bernd]

Darren,

I see were this got to be a bit confusing. 

What I'm going to try and do here is build a "router/engraver" since I have the mechanical parts already.    What drove this idea was my brother asked me about a laser engraver. He's looking for a side source of extra income. Plus I want some experince in building a cnc table. It's sort of a prelude to the plasma cnc table, only smaller.

I'm still researching whether I will build or buy a CNC plasma table and that won't happen till next year. 

Has this cleared up any questions of what I'm going to do?

Bernd

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Bernd

This is one i will have to keep my eye on , ,,,,,,,, i see you are buying separate parts for the controller , the mother board ,,,, is this so you can mount everything in one enclosure , computer , breakout board , drivers,,ect ?


Regards Rob

[Bernd]

Hi Bernd

This is one i will have to keep my eye on , ,,,,,,,, i see you are buying separate parts for the controller , the mother board ,,,, is this so you can mount everything in one enclosure , computer , breakout board , drivers,,ect ?


Regards Rob

The mother board's are cheap at $84.99. I now have to spec out the CPU, memory boards, and power supply for the computer end. I'm still debating as to whether I'll use a computer case or use a seperate enclosure for everything.

Next I need to decide if I'm going to buy a package for the motors and controler or if I'll buy single items. Still up in the air about that.

Then I'll have to spec out the whether I'm going to use ball screws or Acme thread.

This will take a bit of time as I need to save up my Mad Money for this project.

Bernd

[Rob.Wilson]

Bend

What cnc progarm will you be using ,,,,,Mach 3 ?         

I no what you mean ,this CNC building is no cheap 

Regards Rob

[Bernd]

Rob,

I have been doing a bit more research (searching cnc internet sites) and it seems many are using the Mach3 software. I haven't given it any serious thought as of yet.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Ok, I've done a little more thinking of how I'm going to approach the drive system of this router/engraver. I've decided that I'm going to go with getting the indiviuals parts and not a packaged system. Since the "Z" axis is small and will only raise/lower the cutting tool or motor, I won't need a large motor to drive it. I'll also be using an Acme screw since it's more compact than a ball screw. I've included some close ups of the "Z" axis so you can see why I've decided to go this route.





In the first 2 pictures I'm checking the travel of the "Z" axis. It's only 2  9/16" (65 mm). But I only have a little over 1.5" (38 mm) clearence under the "X" axis beam.



The "Z" axis has a unique set of bearings. Small roller type set at 90 degress to each other and they travel in a 90 degree groove. Very smooth and rigid.



The AA battery will give you a perspective of how small the "Z" axis is.

So what I'll need to do now is decide what size step motors I'm going to use. Then I'll need to spec out two ball screws, an Acme screw.

Also needed will be a break out board, drive boards for the motors and a power supply for the whole drive system. This will take a while since there is so much available to the hobbyist on the interweb.

I'll be back to update this thread as I get the parts together that will be needed. It's going to be a slow process, so be patient.

Bernd

[Brass_Machine]

...

So what I'll need to do now is decide what size step motors I'm going to use. Then I'll need to spec out two ball screws, an Acme screw.

Also needed will be a break out board, drive boards for the motors and a power supply for the whole drive system. This will take a while since there is so much available to the hobbyist on the interweb.

I'll be back to update this thread as I get the parts together that will be needed. It's going to be a slow process, so be patient.

Bernd

Hey Bernd

Check out these guys for a hobby drivers etc...

HobbyCNC

I have their pro kit for my X2 conversion. Not quite done with it yet so I can't give you a review... Yet.

Eric

[raynerd]

Looking forward to reading more Bernd. Eric, those HobbyCNC boards look OK, I know quite a few use them but the fact they are unipolar put me off. Being in the UK, I`ve gone for the Arc Euro 4.2A bipolar drivers but I know my mate Steve, a member her on MadModder, uses the Motion Control Stuff. Looking forward to seeing what you choose. Also forgot to mention, I`ve actually purchased a cheapo bipolar 2A stepper driver off ebay from china, yet to plug it in but can`t wait to see how it performes compared to the £50 Arc Euro drivers I use.

Chris

[Bernd]

Eric,

I've been to all the major hobby dealers that provide cnc stuff. There's quite a few. But since I've decided to buy individual parts instead of a package I'll need to invetigate further untill I finally decide to buy. Still trying to wrap my mind around bi-polar and uipolar. Sound more like a diseases. 

Chris,

More will come along but in drips and draps. I'll post if anything develops.

Bernd

[HS93]

Hi Bernd out of interest you menthioned the Widgetmaster mini have you got one yet, I managed to get one in december but not finnished with the micro switches yet, if you have one what do you think of it,

Peter

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Bernd

Have you had a look at the Mach3 manual ?  http://www.machsupport.com/documentation.php  there is alot of good info in it .

I have been using Mach3 for a couple of years  and am slowly getting to grips with it , it has some great addons ,,,,,,,,,,, I should use the cnc mill a bit more 


Cheers Rob

[Bernd]

Hi Bernd out of interest you menthioned the Widgetmaster mini have you got one yet, I managed to get one in december but not finnished with the micro switches yet, if you have one what do you think of it,

Peter

No Peter I never got one. I mentioned I liked to build one that small and actually started thinking about it. Then I came across what I've got pictured here and shelfed the idea of building a Widgimaster mini.

But just from looking at it I think it's a small ideal thing to have for small model work and engraving small plates.

How about some pics of the one you have? Put them in this thread, if you don't mind.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Hi Bernd

Have you had a look at the Mach3 manual ?  http://www.machsupport.com/documentation.php  there is alot of good info in it .

I have been using Mach3 for a couple of years  and am slowly getting to grips with it , it has some great addons ,,,,,,,,,,, I should use the cnc mill a bit more 


Cheers Rob

No Rob I haven't looked at the manual. But from surfing the net about home shop CNC I see Mach3 is mentioned alot. So it must be the software to use. Nice of you telling me you use it. Now I can pick your brain a bit.

Guess I'll have to check out that link now, thanks.

Bernd

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Bernd

    you can pick my brains if you can fined em , i poke metal in the pot with me  bare hands 

You can download and  run Mach 3  as a trial version free , includes  Lazy Cam ,,,,,, i think it lets you use 1000 lines of code , or is it 500 ?

The licence  to unlock it is very reasonably priced too .

Cheers Rob

[Bernd]

Rob,

Have downloaded both Mach2 and 3 manuals. Also Mach2 V6.11. It has a limit of 1000 lines of code.

I'm going to wait until I have one of the new mother boards up and running. I don't want to have any other programs on that computer. It is strictly going to be used for the CNC machine, in other words a dedicated computer just for the router/engraver.

What platform are you running Mach3 on? Windows XP or Windows 7? or in between Vista?

One thing I need to figure out is since I'm going to use a smaller motor for the "Z" axis will be if I'll need a different driver board. My concern is the voltage of the motors since they vary with size.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Hey Bernd

Check out these guys for a hobby drivers etc...

HobbyCNC

I have their pro kit for my X2 conversion. Not quite done with it yet so I can't give you a review... Yet.

Eric

This is one of the vendors I'm concidering. Just looked again. I'm sort of waffling on whether to try getting the individual parts or a package. Reason being, the "Z" axis dosen't need to be such a big motor. I don't know how I'll go yet.

So far what do you think of the system you've ordered from HobbyCNC?

Bernd

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Bernd

I am running Mach3 on windows XP PRO in the shop on an old computer i got from the tip/dump  , in the UK we sort out or rubish /junk into neat piles  .


For my X,Y axis i am using the same driver cards as they has the same motors   , the Z axis has a bigger motor as it has to lift the head so i am using a differant driver for that , the motors are of differant voltage , but run off the same power suply ,,,,,,,,,,, i THINK  i am  correct in saying its not the voltage of the motor but the amps/current the Motor draws .

REALY NEED SOMEONE TO JUMP IN HERE    John S 

Regards Rob

There are some good tutorials one the Mach 3 site too

[Bernd]

Thanks Rob.

I'll have to go back to the site and look around when I have a bit more. I think I might go over on the CNCZone and ask some of these technical questions and see what kind of answer I get.

You've been very helpful so far Rob and thanks to the others that have chimed in with ideas and links. Much appreciated. Looks like all other projects are on hold while I work on this one.

I hope I don't catch a bad case of  and find yet onther one before I finish this. I'm getting tired of to many unfinished projects. 

Bernd 

[dsquire]

Bernd

Here is a link on CNC that you may find interesting. I know that it's not about kitchen cupboards but it's relevant I Think. 

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702944

I'll keep looking for that article on self completing cupboards for you. 

Cheers 

Don

[HS93]

you asked about my router, I bought it as a unfinished set of parts as from what I can gather they are not made any more , I think ill healthhas stoped him making this great little machine bt he is selling a full set of drawrings for them now.  I have the motors mounted and am fitting the micro switches. I am thinking of moving the top stepper so I can fit a handle to set the hight so that will be a 1-1 belt, I have some more pictures that I will post as soon as I get my main pc  set up I am using a net book at the moment and it is horrible. by the way I got it on ebay from the man that made them very cheap, just postage and inport tax killed it
Peter


http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2613.msg27875#msg27875

[Bernd]

Bernd

Here is a link on CNC that you may find interesting. I know that it's not about kitchen cupboards but it's relevant I Think. 

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702944

Will have to check this out later. Thanks for the link

I'll keep looking for that article on self completing cupboards for you. 

Cheers 

Don

Well, I planted some sawdust from the cabinets I made earlier. After two years all that came up were weeds.   


On top of that I went to get more hinges and found out they no longer make that still hinge. So now I have 3 doors with the old style hinge and I'm going to have to find a replacement for the other 3 doors. Boy nothing is ever easy.

Anyway, keep looking for those cabinets. The wife sure "wood" appreciate it. 

Bernd

[Bernd]

Peter,

I eagerly await some pictures of your set up.

I"m working on designing a "Z" axis package right now to mount a tool holder and the screw and motor mount.

Progress is slow do to other projects other than these fun projects.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Well I finally made a part for the "Z" axis. I call it the "base plate" for lack of something better.

It will hold the engraver/router spindle, I'm leaning toward using a Foredom Tool, and the anchor point for the "Z" axis lead screw.

I totaly messed this part up. What I had drawn up is nowhere near what it was supposed to be. The only things that turned out right was the two holes and width of the base plate. The length is off by 3/8". The slot was supposed to be a pocket, but do to the wrong dimensions I had to make it a slot. I still need to counter sink the front of the holes to except counter sink screws. I'm not going to give dimensions since this is a custom build. So here's the first pic of a screwed up part. 



And here it is mounted. Exciting eh?




I now have to figure out where to mount the motor and how. That should take a while.

Bernd

[dsquire]

Well, I planted some sawdust from the cabinets I made earlier. After two years all that came up were weeds.   


On top of that I went to get more hinges and found out they no longer make that still hinge. So now I have 3 doors with the old style hinge and I'm going to have to find a replacement for the other 3 doors. Boy nothing is ever easy.

Anyway, keep looking for those cabinets. The wife sure "wood" appreciate it. 

Bernd

I think that you are using the wrong type of fertilizer on those doors. 

Send me a picture of the door hinges that you need. There is a place close by that buys up all the old stock hinges and pulls, ect. that might have what you need. Give me the brand name as well if you have it.

Cheers 

Don

[Bernd]

Don,

They are Blum European hinges. I already found a replacement. The only difference is how far they swing.

Thanks anyway.

Bernd

[Bernd]

I hope I don't catch a bad case of  and find yet onther one before I finish this. I'm getting tired of to many unfinished projects. 

Bernd 

Well, it's happened. I may have another project going, but the good news is it'll be related to this thread. Here's the story and the possibility of what could be.

I have found that I have 10 UCN5804B stepper motor drive chips, I also have 3 small stepper motors. I came across some circuit board designs and a whole lot more info. I may decide to draw up some schematics and also design some boards for all this. In other words make my own driver and breakout boards. I'm thinking of doing this to try out the hardware that's going to go on this project. This way I could test each axis as I build it up.

I also have software to help me do all this. I also know a guy that did a board design and sent it via internet to California from here in New York and within a couple of days his boards were delivered.

So with all this in mind I'm going to have to see what happens. 

Stay tuned. 

News at 11:00 

Bernd

[dsquire]

Bernd

I'll be in the front row at 10:55pm 

Cheers 

Don

[Bernd]

Notice I didn't say what day, month or year.