Author Topic: BMW V8 dry sump from billet  (Read 208421 times)

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #250 on: February 07, 2011, 08:38:12 PM »
 :ddb:


Back on it  :headbang:



Looks like it'll be very nice, very soon  :thumbup:



I'd leave it at the 8mm.... 5mm thick ali will take a bit of debris knock a lot better than a 2mm bit will..... Definitely! 



Right... Bed me thinks!



Ralph.
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Offline Dean W

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #251 on: February 07, 2011, 09:30:04 PM »
Fitting up time, and it's all looking good, Ade.  Some to go yet, I know, but it sure is getting close.
What a job!

I like your "arty" shot, too. 
Dean W.

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Offline jim

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #252 on: February 07, 2011, 09:37:21 PM »
i'm looking forward to this being finished, good work!
if i'd thought it through, i'd have never tried it

Offline NickG

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #253 on: February 08, 2011, 07:48:56 AM »
Great to see you back on this Ade. Nice to see the trial fit too  :thumbup:
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #254 on: February 08, 2011, 03:13:40 PM »
Thanks chaps for the kind words, always appreciated  :D You'll make a metal mangler of me yet...


Speaking of which, it's time to look at the bit I've been putting off all this time (yes, even right back to the wax mockup)... that chunk at the back. The original sump has a fairly intricate casting which covers the flywheel & bolts to the gearbox bellhousing. This adds strength to the engine/gearbox unit, and keeps the crud & gravel off the flywheel. Whilst I won't be able to replicate the casting, I should be able to come up with something which at least acts as a cover, and adds some extra strength to the whole affair.

The first job, then, was to take one of the big arced pieces of ali I cut out of the original round piece, & chop it down to a more manageable size. Fortunately, Evolution do a range of TCT (Tungsten Carbide Tipped, I believe) blades which are rated to slice ali, at up to 3000 rpm. The blades are supposed to go in an Evolution circular saw, but keeping that thing straight whilst chopping into a 2.5" thick piece of ali proved to be nigh on impossible.... so, I stuck a blade in a broken down old table saw I found in the basement. It took 2 passes, but it did the job.

Next up, I used a tip handed to me by Bogs - and stuck a similar circular saw blade into a slitting saw arbor, and mounted it in the mill. Dial the RPMs up to 2300, and let 'er rip!



You can go through a piece of aluminium that big faster than a vindaloo goes through a dog. In fact, the only reason I didn't cut it full width in one pass was because it was too tall to clear the quill.

There are only 2 drawbacks to this method of cutting metal: 1) it makes a hell of a racket (good ear defenders are essential), and 2) the chips are officially hotter than the surface of the sun, so you really need an asbestos neck. In the photo above, I'm actually standing about 10 feet away from the mill, and using a garden sprayer* to fire occasional bursts of WD40 at the blade, hence the smoke coming out of the back side.

Anyway - long story short, before you know it the block is roughed to size & ready for the next bit of headscratching. This next photo shows you what I'm trying to achieve:



Basically, I shall cut the ali to approximately the radius drawn on it. It will be bolted into place where shown, and slots milled down where required. I'll also hollow out the back of it so it's a bit lighter.

So now all I have to do is chip the rust off my maths skills, work out the diameter of the circle from the chord I have (350mm across by 122mm high in case you're wondering) which will tell me where it has to go on the rotary table so I can cut a nice smooth arc.

More tomorrow!


PS:

* - Another of John's excellent tips. One of these things: is great for firing WD40 about the place. You can set it to a really fine mist; or screw the nozzle out to send firehose-sized blasts at an overheating cutter...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #255 on: February 08, 2011, 03:26:14 PM »
Nice to see you're back to it Ade!

That big lump's progressing/ developing nicely......  :thumbup:

David D
David.

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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #256 on: September 18, 2011, 04:28:54 PM »
Good grief, another 7!!! months have passed, where does the time go?

Although I have many excuses, I shall deploy only the "moving shed" (which took between about March and July), and "mad busy at work" (August to present day).  That and most weekends have been out & about recently, so stealing valuable workshop time. Today was an exception, so I finally got something done....

I've been procrastinating about the "ears" on this sump for ages. I finally spent a bunch of time measuring up:



The green bit is 9mm forwards from the back of the sump (the blue bit); so I will have to mill this bit away, otherwise the gearbox will not mount properly. I'm not sure what (if anything) the hole is/does at the root of the "ear", but as the gasket dodges it, so shall I.

So - a quick(ish) crap-o-cad (Mk2 - with rulers!):



It didn't take me long to decide I wasn't going to bother with the secondary cutout; way too complicated & time consuming for, ultimately, very little benefit. I mounted the sump on the rotary table so I could do all of the operations without having to physically shift it; what I did have to do was pull the mill head forwards to do the first ear, and backwards to do the 2nd. Each cut was done full-width (9mm) with a 0.675" cutter (the only one I can find capable of cutting full-depth, that isn't a roughing cutter, and which makes a reasonable stab at a surface finish). The climb cuts (not shown) were a good test of rotab & mill locking... to their credit, neither moved at all.



After taking the back section in by the required amount, the rotary table was orientated to the appropriate angle, allowing the "front" of the "ear" to be milled off, leaving the final shape:



I forgot to take pictures of the making of the semi-circular piece; but it ended up OK. The next picture shows where it will sit in relation to the sump, there are several cutouts necessary to allow access to the bolts at the back of the sump. There's some more shaping to do on the ears (they need to more-or-less follow the slope of the semi-circle to finish off that piece; and various holes to drill & tap for gearbox bolts; not to mention the bolts that will actually hold the piece to the sump...



Note the "bump" in the side of the sump, just next to the root of the ear - yes, it IS deliberate, to clear that there hole...

Hopefully, I'll have some time during the week to make more progress.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #257 on: September 23, 2011, 03:01:38 PM »
A small amount of progress:



The cut-out is to allow me to mount the spigots to which the outlet pipes will be connected within the overall plan of the sump. There's about 2cms before the plugs start getting in the way, I intend to expand each hole to around 3/4" (because that's the nearest I have to a 19mm end mill...), then tap them 1/2" BSP. The spigots will have an external 1/2" bsp thread (tapered, if I'm feeling brave) and be drilled/reamed through for 5/8" or 16mm to match the tubes.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #258 on: September 24, 2011, 05:18:53 PM »
More progress! At this rate, it'll be finished sometime....

First job, expand those holes:



3/4" end-mill, plunged straight down on the quill, about 2cms. Next job, thread the holes. Annoyingly, the only 1/2" BSP tap I have is a little stubby one, so any kind of power tapping was out of the question. The quill proved useful to get the thing started straight & true. The holes tapped very easily, and - this time - no broken taps!



Earlier, I'd turned up a spigot out of a scrag end of steel I scored off a mate (thanks Pete!  :wave:), tapped one end 1/2" BSP to suit, the other turned down to 3/4" to suit the flexible pipe, leaving a bit of a flange in the middle which I'll turn into a hex bolt of whatever size ends up working:



Couldn't resist a trial fit:



Woo :)

2 more spigots to turn, a bit of dividing head work to cut the hexes, and the entire "oil system" part of the sump will be complete!
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #259 on: September 24, 2011, 06:20:37 PM »
Ha! Just gave you a nudge in a message about this and then found it half done!

Nicely done chief. Looking good   :ddb:



Now then are you just trying to show off?

Quote
So - a quick(ish) crap-o-cad (Mk2 - with rulers!):
   

And you even have the prototype clipboard attachment not due out till early 2012!!!  Who have you been bribing?
 :lol:

You throw 'em and I'll hit 'em  :) 



Seriously... Very nice to see this moving along  :thumbup:




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline doubleboost

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #260 on: September 24, 2011, 06:33:16 PM »
That clutch looks like a serious bit of kit
2 settings in and out lol
very nicely done
John

Offline sparky961

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #261 on: September 25, 2011, 12:16:45 AM »
Can I be just a tad more honest than most are comfortable with for a moment?  When I first saw this thread developing, I thought to myself "what a yahoo, taking that big slab of aluminum and cutting those parts from it".

After following it a bit more, I wish to give a formal head nod and repeal my first opinion.  I am hereby thoroughly impressed with what you did so far what that huge lump of metal.  Maybe even a bit jealous of the machinery, but isn't that usually the case?

Good job, and thanks for the inspiration. :)

-Sparky

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #262 on: September 25, 2011, 02:26:35 AM »
Backing up Sparky's comment.......

I'm having difficulty finding the words for serious, meaningful comment on this project.  :scratch:

It's the sort of thing we produced at work. A bit overwhelming for a hobby component!  :bugeye:


Ade. I admire your tenacity, and every part of method/ outcome you are showing, warts an all..... Blummin well done!  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Anzaniste

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #263 on: September 25, 2011, 11:26:51 AM »
I'm pleased to see this project back on the go. Seeing it earlier on is what hooked me into this splendid group.
Scrooby, 1 mile south of Gods own County.

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2011, 05:18:24 PM »
Wow, thanks guys, kind words indeed. When I started this project, I didn't really know what I was taking on. I didn't realise I'd be so close to the limits (in terms of size) of the Bridgeport; I just figured "it'll do it, no bother"... but, well, I've learned a lot along the way - some as a result of "suck it and see"; but lots more from all of you out there who've either commented directly; or who've I've liberally stolen techniques and knowledge from your own threads. Without this website, I couldn't have come as far as I have, in the relatively short "actual machining time" that I have.

Truly:  :nrocks:

Soooo anyway, I wasn't going to show the making of a spigot, 'cos it should only take 1/2 hour & be dead straightforward, right?



Yeah, right.

First up, I decided - perhaps unwisely - to use some scrap steel I happen to have. I think it used to be a hydraulic ram. I've no idea what it is, but it's pretty tough. It makes cool smoke though:



So; chop it down to 1" over the whole spigot length; then cut a .600" long nose to 0.825", which is threaded with a 1/2" BSP die in a monster die holder:



Using lots of oil, I power-tapped at 17rpm up to the last couple of turns, which were done by hand. Then, part the piece off. I'd hope to show a nice action shot of that, but the cutting oil can obscured the view. Shame, it made good smoke...

Moving on, I have a piece of steel pipe I'd tapped internally; so, chuck that up, and screw the spigot into it. I realised at this point I'd forgotten to relieve the end of the threads with the parting off tool, doh!, so it didn't quite sit true to the shoulder. Still, near enough..... The end is turned down to 0.750" for the pipe to slide over, then progressively drilled out to 5/8":



That should have been the final operation on the lathe, except for this one I needed to cut that shoulder... I used my ER32 collet chuck because it's pretty damn accurate, once you've found the best position for it in the 3 jaw. TIR was less than 0.002". I'm not sure if I get a prize for "The most chucks in use simultaneously" - the ER32 chuck in a 3-jaw in a 4-jaw....



Final actual operation is to use the dividing head on the mill to cut the flange into a hex shape, so I can graunch it up with a spanner. It turns out a 19 will fit perfectly:



So, there we have them:



I should probably explain the black one.... it wasn't deliberate, my 19/32" drill went blunt in the middle of it (probably a lack of oil + not pushing it consistently enough); I did keep trying to push it through, but when the whole thing changed colour & the cutting oil ignited, I figured it was dead... Fortunately, I have enough other drills that I could bin that one & carry on... eventually, I got it cut. The heat had definitely hardened the metal though, it was noticably more difficult to mill the hex...

Anyhoo - here they are, three little piggies all in a row:



And with some pipes on:



Turns out there's not quite enough room for a jubilee clip on that leftmost pipe, I'll have to mill a tiny (0.5mm at a guess) relief just to squeeze it in. Also, there's not enough space between the pipes to allow 2 jubilee clips to pass each other, so one of the tubes (probably the middle one) will have to be pinched "high"... There are 3 solutions to this dilemma: 1, use a thinner wall pipe; 2, next time, leave more space between the pipes; 3, make a longer spigot for the middle pipe, to allow the clip to sit further outboard. In the picture, the pipe is being pinched over the "bolt" section, which I'm not totally happy with.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline HS93

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2011, 09:02:55 PM »
are you going to solder a Barb on to stop the pipes  working there way off   nice job by the way .

peter
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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #266 on: September 26, 2011, 04:16:02 AM »
Hi Peter,

Thanks :) I hope I'm not boring too many people with multiple photos of what are, often, straightforward milling or turning ops...

I won't need to put barbs on this time; the pipe run is so short that it won't have room to shake off; and the pipes actually grip the spigots extremely well (so well, I had to unscrew the spigots with the pipes on, stick 'em in the vice to pull the pipe off again!). The other end of 2 of the 3 pipes is a meaty screw-on fitting which won't go anywhere, the 3rd is another spigot, but again, there's no-where for the pipe to go...

I'll put a photo up later today which will show you what I mean.

Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #267 on: September 26, 2011, 11:33:02 AM »
Hi Ade, it's good to see you back on it again, and getting so close to the end.  I was thinking about all the neat things I could make out of such a large chunk of aluminum, back when you started, but you've really made this a nice project, and done something unique, and that's what I enjoy about our hobby.  Very nice work, and very inovative ways to get around problems.  Well done if I may say so. :jaw: :beer: Cheers, mad jack

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #268 on: September 26, 2011, 02:25:02 PM »
Thanks Jack, it's much appreciated :)

Peter, as this photo shows, the pipe run is very short:



The 3 pipes are pretty much right next to each other, and I think it'll be impossible for them to shake loose under any circumstances.

No machining today I'm afraid, tomorrow I hope to start on the sloped bits.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Henning

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #269 on: September 27, 2011, 04:23:02 AM »
Sweet mother of.... That's a lot of milling :bugeye:

Nice work!
Henning

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Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #270 on: October 27, 2011, 12:23:26 PM »
Beautiful work!
Very well done project! (Just read the entire thread.. well worth the read)
SPiN Racing

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #271 on: October 28, 2011, 04:00:00 AM »
Thanks guys, it's much appreciated :)

I hope to have it finished very soon, but my day job has spilled over into machine shop time  - and since it pays better, I've reluctantly not been near the machines since that last post :( Currently in Turkey, and since I seem to have sprained/torn a muscle, it looks like it will be a few more days before I am fit to mill again.... grumble.

As soon as I'm back, and as soon as this damn muscle behaves, I'll be back on it; work is due to calm down a little bit from now on.... I hope...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #272 on: November 17, 2011, 07:42:18 PM »
So is it finished yet?  :poke: 



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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #273 on: November 18, 2011, 05:08:42 AM »
So is it finished yet?  :poke: 



 :)

No, damn it all.... the "muscle" was actually pneumonia, and (feeble excuse) it's been a bit nesh in the shop recently...

Hoping to make some progress this weekend...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #274 on: November 18, 2011, 04:17:18 PM »
OK, managed an hour or so in the shop tonight, in between "day" work, so there is a little progress to report, woohoo!



Drilled & tapped 2 holes, M10, and actually got them pretty much in the right place..... now, you might think that's not much of a challenge, but...

1) There wasn't enough Y-axis travel to get to both holes, without cranking the head backwards & forwards...
2) There wasn't nearly enough room to drill vertically - so I had to use my newly acquired 90o head - once again, I've managed to get the tooling required "just in time".

The piece that's bolted on is a part of the old sump, and is being used to make sure the holes are in the right place. Which, as I said, they pretty much are. Yay!

Next job is to drill & bolt on the semi-circular part, that covers up the gap in the bellhousing, provides a stand when the engine/box are out of the car, and also takes 2 further bolts to help hold the whole lot together....
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...