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Author Topic: Making a Milling tool Arbor  (Read 40091 times)

Offline Darren

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Making a Milling tool Arbor
« on: December 03, 2009, 07:36:30 PM »
Well enough bodging and showing bits of welded up scrap, time to do some precision work  :thumbup:

I have an index milling cutter but no arbor, can't find it on the manufactures web site either. So I thought I'd make one after seeing Bogs today it reminded me  :thumbup:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/bogstandard_photos/Swingup08.jpg

I mentioned some bar stock I recently sourced elsewhere http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2328.0.
This turned out to be no ordinary steel, it was pretty tough stuff. Can't cut it with the mechanical hacksaw or the bandsaw. Can't drill it with HSS either, though Cobalt drills were ok.

Because I couldn't saw it I had to part it on the lathe instead

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3849.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Cept my parting tool couldn't go deep enough  :doh:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3850.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Where there's a will .....  :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3851.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Now I had a shorter piece I needed to turn one end to 20mm, largest that will fit in an ER32 collet on the mill.
Oops, it got a bit hot ... :ddb:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3852.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

There, that's better

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3854.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Turned around and fashioned a bit. I need a 16mm x 1.5 thread to fit the tool ..(the flash makes it look rough, it wasn't really)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3855.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Changed the change wheels on the lathe and here we are, a thread, better still it's the right size too ....  :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3857.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

And here's the tool.
Now I don't want the centre of the tool to butt up to the arbor, rather I want the outer 50mm diameter to take the load and stresses. It'll be more stable that way.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3861.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

A little bit later and it's well on its way

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3865.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

This spacer needs to be true and parallel on both faces, this is important or the cutter will wobble.
Meaning all drilling, boring and facing of both sides needed to be done without removing it from the chuck.

Here you can see I have done most of the work and almost parted it off, but not quite. I needed to face it first and at the same time finish parting.
Notice I have left side clearance to allow the swarf to escape during my final facing/parting ....  :smart:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3867.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

And here we are, this is the parted face

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3869.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

I wanted these parts to lock together as much as possible for rigidity. Notice the boss on the tool and the arbor fit into the spacer.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3871.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

The final result, the spacer was pressed onto the tool on the press and the arbor is a very close fit. Because of the thread everything will only ever tighten up in use.
In fact if it ever needs removing it'll probably have to be machined off !!

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3873.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor


I think my new lathe works  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 07:41:59 PM by Darren »
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 08:36:58 PM »
Darren

Very impressive. I can just about imagine the big smile on your face as you are making this. It's nice to have a machine that you can get serious with and get results without always having to back off.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline AdeV

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 02:13:06 AM »
Darren, that's a fascinating looking cutter. In use, is it like a giant end-mill? Can you share where you got it from, or was it a lucky one-off find?

I'm loving your arbor too. Looking at pic 5, the one below the overheated bit, it looks like a really glassy smooth finish. In reality, is it that smooth? I'm finding I just can't cut a piece to be completely "baby's bum" smooth; there's always a very faint pattern on it & if I run my thumbnail along the length, you can feel a certain roughness. Not sure if it's me, or if I'm chasing a finish that's impossible. I'm currently using carbide tooling on mystery metal, FWIW.

 :thumbup:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 02:23:12 AM »
Well that was a good job well done Darren,  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

A good try out for your new lathe that ended up with a real beast of a cutter for your mill:- great stuff :thumbup:

Have fun

Stew
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bogstandard

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 02:37:14 AM »
Very nicely done Darren.

I would think that cutter could be classed as a mover, it just moves metal out of the way.

Looks a bit pricey to retip though.


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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 05:44:34 AM »
Thanks guys,
I though it would be a worthy exercise for us to get to know each other a little (not you, the lathe  :doh:)

Bogs, yeah, frightening init .....  :coffee:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 05:50:52 AM »
Adev,

It's really hard to advise without being there.

You will have a lot of variables, the material itself, tooling (size/shape/condition) condition of the actual lathe (bearings/leadscrew/ways/chuck/slides) and more, that's just the basics.

All the finishes you see in this post are from the lathe and cutter, no emery finishing or polishing was done except for burrs on corners. But you have to remember this is mostly down to the steel properties.
I find the harder a steel is the better it finishes. Same goes for alloy.
The threading was done with a HSS cutter as I don't have a carbide type yet, this was not the best choice here but it's ok, better than the picture portrays.

I used a worn tip shown in the rougher areas for bulk removal and a new tip were you see it shiny ...   :dremel:

Your issues may just be down to the material itself?

I picked the milling cutter up along the way somewhere, the seller threw it in with a bunch of HSS cutters as he didn't have an arbour for it ....

« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 06:08:58 AM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 02:53:33 PM »
Thought I'd better try it out now that I've made it  :ddb:

This is a piece of cast steel from a steam engine basket .... don't ask ....

One evening a couple of weeks ago I had a go at it on the mill with a HSS cutter. Although it was tough it cut ok, but the cutters didn't last long before the edge was gone.
It was taking me hours to try to square this lump up.


http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3875.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

So tonight I attacked it with the tipped cutter. This flew through it once I'd found the settings.
Tried 600rpm, no good, lots of vibration.
1000 rpm much better
1400 and it was now ploughing through this cast like butter.


http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3876.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Flipped it over and took a full 50mm face cut in one pass at 0.100", I think this is about the limit here, 0.050" sounded much better. This is cast steel though so ordinary steel should be much better.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3878.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

It's not a brilliant finish, only the shaper can do better in my workshop with this material. But as a bulk remover this is the man that can, as Bogs says ....  :lol:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/IMG_3879.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Be interesting to see what it does to ordinary steel ...

« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 05:48:46 PM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 02:55:27 PM »
BTW, this is very fast , really fast .... and the lump stays cold unlike when using HSS which gets it steaming.
Not good when machining this stuff as it can work harden in an instant. Then it's really tough to do anything with.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 03:07:41 PM »
Very very nice! both the work, tooling and lathe!


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Offline Darren

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Making a Milling tool Arbor Part 2
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 07:36:15 PM »
Thanks for all the kind comments guys ....

Even though it turned out well enough I wasn't entirely happy with the end result.

This being how far the cutter was extended from the arbor and machine bearings. A lot of leverage there to induce vibrations. In truth it seemed to work well enough, but it was bugging me all the same ....
Here we have an ER32 arbour/collet holding the milling cutter arbour. The facing edge of the cutter is about 8" from the spindle.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3900.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

So what I had in mind was a dedicated ISO30 arbor that the cutter fitted to directly ...
Except of course no such thing exists ....  :bang:

So I'll have to make my own then .....  :dremel:

At first I thought of setting the compound slide over and cut the taper that way. I'd done this before for a short MT2 arbor.
But then this lathe has a taper turning attachment ..... Ooooh, new territory for me .....
In for a penny ......

First job was to study the taper unit and clean it as it was covered in thick oily gunge. Thankfully this has protected it well over the years and it seemed to be in fine condition.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3888.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

This little fitting is taken off the end of the crosslide screw to disconnect it...

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3896.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

And used here to connect the crosslide to the taper unit

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3888.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Now the taper angle needed setting. This is 1" per foot or 16.7112 degrees. Thankfully the taper unit scale has both sets of markings and 1" sure is easier than the other.
Once set I used another arbor and a dial gauge to check and tweak slightly.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3886.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Having now lost the crosslide adjustments the compound needs to be set over to 90 deg for feeding in.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3889.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Having satisfied myself with the workings and how too's the machine was re-set back to normal. Except of course for the taper unit angle, that was left alone


« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:09:31 PM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 07:49:56 PM »
A chunk of that tough steel should be perfect for this application ...  :ddb: So a section was cut with the fiber cut-off saw. (not wishing to repeat the hacksaw teeth removing exercise)

Mounted in the 3 jaw and one end machined down to 17mm, This will later be turned to 16mm and threaded for the cutter.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3890.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Now it can be turned around and mounted in a collet. This end was turned to 31.4mm which is the thick end of the taper.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3892.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

End section for the internal thread.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3894.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor



And now for the taper, the machine was re-set and ...........................................................oooooh the nerves .....




http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3898.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Went without a hitch, not a murmur ..... bit of an anticlimax really ....


Turned around to cut the thread, 16x1.5mm

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3899.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Here's the thread, not as bad as the picture would have you believe, looks rough but it's not.
At this diameter this steel like to be spun fast to cut properly. 1200rpm is way too slow, my next speed is 2500rpm at which I get a chrome like finish.

But there is no way I'm gonna do any threading at 2500rpm, not on your Nelley ... so this will have to do ....

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3901.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

And the cutter fitted

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3902.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:11:12 PM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 07:57:15 PM »
Looks good dunit  :) :) :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3903.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Here it is compared to the ER32 holder with a cutter in it. As you can see my new arbour is shorter ....  :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3904.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor


Now the moment of truth.
All the time I was turning the taper I had nothing I could test the angle with as it was being made and adjust as needed .... Fingers crossed .....  :med:

I marked the surface with several marker pen lines and fitted it to the milling spindle. Just in, quick turn and out ...

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3906.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

Oh was I chuffed, my heart could start beating again ..... you couldn't ask for better than that    :)

Now it looks very reasonable

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3908.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor

A close-up

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3909.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor


I'm over the moon with the result, truly I am ..................  :mmr:
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:08:16 PM by Darren »
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bogstandard

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 08:00:03 PM »
Isn't it nice when things go right?


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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 08:07:22 PM »
Certainly is John..... and without people like yourself to guide me along with all your little tips and projects, I'm sure the result may have been quite different  :zap:
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 08:56:02 PM »
Darren

Another great piece of tooling. It not only gives you a more stable tool but I am sure that you will find times that the extra headroom will be of use which will make it even more versatile. Good writeup too. Thanks  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline chuck foster

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 09:34:14 PM »
nice job darren........it is a great feeling when you make a new piece of tooling for the shop!!!!

chuck  :wave:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 01:55:47 AM »
Cracking job  Darren that lathe certainly got some good features  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Have fun

Stew
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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 03:12:28 AM »
Hi Darren

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: great job , i hope my TTA works as well as yours

Regards Rob
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 03:24:27 AM »
Darren while you're set up why not make a few more of those holders spare you can leave the the fixing end blank until the job comes along for them.

Have fun

Stew
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Offline NickG

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 03:54:44 AM »
Darren, superb work there, itlooks really good.  :bow:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2009, 06:52:06 PM »
Thanks Guys,

Now I know I can do this it should open a few doors.

Stew, I'll leave the taper unit setting as is and run off a couple or three as I have some tooling that could be utilised if only I had arbors for them.

Rob, judging by the standard of your work I'd be surprised if your TTA wasn't a dream to use. Having now used one I can see what the fuss is about.

The first attempt won't be wasted, I was eyeing it up tonight for another job with a slight adaption ....  :dremel:

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Offline kvom

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2009, 09:13:26 PM »
Did you try it with the side "flutes"?  With the inserts staggered like that it almost looks like a roughing mill.  I'm wondering what kind of finish it would leave.

Nice work all around.  :beer:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2009, 04:11:42 AM »
According to the Sandvik web site this is a rapid rate metal mover ie a roughing cutter ...

Having used it the removal rate certainly seems fast. I've only tried it with cast steel so far which it coped well with. The side flutes do work well but did not leave a "finish" that we would normally accept.

Its main asset will be for general shaping and initial sizing of a larger block to something that can then be finished with another cutter.

Sandvik do make finishing cutters, just not this one. The tips leading and exit angles are wrong for that purpose from what I can gather.

I just scored 30 new tips at £24, so expect to see more of this beast with all the scrap I seem to be starting off with !!

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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Milling tool Arbor
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2009, 03:34:27 PM »
I needed to make some little square blocks to fit keyways on my milling spindle. The ones that stop the arbor spinning and ruining the spindle taper.

So with the new "proper" and shorter arbor I made these blocks from some cast steel.

As you can see the finish is now much finer, a normal HSS milling cutter wouldn't do better with cast steel.

So my reservations about the length of my first arbor were correct, it was indeed too long and causing some problems.

The longest edge on these blocks is 18mm to give an idea of scale. Compared to the finish on the cast iron vice I did some time ago there is little difference in the finish.
The blocks would clean up quite easily.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/1024/Milling%20Tool%20Holder/Part2/IMG_3915.jpgMaking a Milling tool Arbor
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 06:38:04 PM by Darren »
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