Author Topic: started a new project (Read 33498 times)

chuck foster · « **on:** November 23, 2009, 09:21:34 PM »

i have a model of a domestic hit and miss gas engine, it is my best running engine so i thought i should make another one.

the casting kit is $395.00 u.s. so i thought i would fabricate it from bar stock and welded bits and pieces.

here is a picture of the engine i'm about to copy, now this is a picture of bob herders engine.

i looked through all my engine pictures and i don't have one of my model and right now it is all torn apart

the first part i'am making is the cylinder. it starts out as a big round hunk of 12L14 steel

started turning it to size

the bore turned out much better than the picture shows. i sharpened the boring bar after the picture was taken.

thats all for tonight, i will post some picture of the original cylinder along side the one i'm making.

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2009, 10:13:43 PM »

Chuck,

A steady rest might help get a better finish in the bore. It's a bit scary seeing that much weight hang out so far from the chuck unsupported.

Nice looking engine by the way.

Bernd

sbwhart · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2009, 01:05:39 AM »

Cracking engine there Chuck

I've got a ambition to make a hit an miss from bar stock one day so I'll be following this with great interest.

Is that a South bend lathe your using there (hope I've not asked this ? before)

Have fun

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2009, 02:33:46 AM »

Chuck,

It's really great watching an engine grow from barstock.

I will be following your ordeal with great expectations.

Bogs

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2009, 03:20:32 AM »

You`re off to a good start on a great project Chuck!

I`m watching......

David D

Darren · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2009, 03:28:13 AM »

That's a nice looking engine your friend Bob has there. I'm guessing it's not full size, but not small either?

Looks like you have a cylinder head on the table. Are you lucky enough to have parts to copy?

chuck foster · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2009, 09:41:35 PM »

thanks for the kind words guys

it helps a project move in the right direction.

bernd you are 100% right about the steady rest, but i don't have one for my lathe ...........yet.
after sharpening the boring bar the finish turned out perfect, now all i have to do is lap the bore and it will be finished.

stew, it is indeed a 9" south bend. i have had this lathe for the last 10 years and i have had very few problems with it.

darren, the engine has 8" diameter flywheels and the whole engine stands about 13" to 14" tall. it is a 1/3 scale of a 1903 domestic engine.
yes i have a model to copy, i bought it from a guy about 8 or 9 years ago. he worked on the engine but half way through the build he just gave up on it............so i got it for about $25.00.
i finished building the engine and now i would like a second one (no idea why but i do)

so i thought i better show some more pictures of what i have been doing.

after all the lathe work was done i had to machine some cut outs where the cylinder mounts to the base.
i mounted the cylinder upside down on my rotary table and used the boring head and cutter to machine the cutouts.

while it was in the mill i drilled the four mounting holes, these will allow the cylinder to be bolted to the four columns that hold the cylinder to the base.

now that i have finished the cylinder i will show it sitting beside the original that i copied. the cylinder is aprox. 3 1/2" tall with a 1.312 dia. bore.

i also made the valves but i only took a picture of them when they were finished. they are one piece and started out as a lump of 3/4" round bar.
after about half and hour of machining each, they were finished

well that does it for tonight, hope to get more done tomorrow night but i think the wife has other ideas for my time..............

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2009, 10:19:02 PM »

Quote from: chuck foster on November 24, 2009, 09:41:35 PM

bernd you are 100% right about the steady rest, but i don't have one for my lathe ...........yet.
after sharpening the boring bar the finish turned out perfect, now all i have to do is lap the bore and it will be finished.

Hey, as long as you got it done and it looks good. It just looked a little scary. I also now realize that the size wasn't that big as far as the cylinder was concerned. It just looked big in the chuck, that's all.

Quote

well that does it for tonight, hope to get more done tomorrow night but i think the wife has other ideas for my time..............

chuck

I'm leaving this one alone. It is a family forum after all and I hardly know you.

Regards,
Bernd

sbwhart · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2009, 01:58:01 AM »

Hi Chuck

Good job

Have you made the valves from silver steel (drill rod).

Stew

sorveltaja · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2009, 04:06:12 AM »

Interesting build, Chuck

.

I assume, that rebuilding the engine from stock material gives kind of closer view to its original design.

Keep up the good work

.

NickG · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2009, 07:08:51 AM »

Wow, think everybody will be watching this Chuck. That is heavy engineering! So is it a full size engine you are copying? The bore looks good.

Nick

Ned Ludd · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2009, 11:56:21 AM »

Hi Chuck,
I know I'm new here and I don't want to be a wet blanket, but, is not the original
that you are copying water cooled?

Ned Ludd

rleete · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2009, 12:49:10 PM »

Yes, as an optional feature.

chuck foster · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2009, 09:43:34 PM »

well i had one of those nights out in the shop were nothing went right so after about an hour i stopped and came in to the house to surf the net

to answer a few questions here we go.

bernd: man did i walk into that one

stew: the valves are made from just good old hot rolled steel, i have used silver steel but hot rolled works just as well.

sorveltaja: building from bar stock makes it harder to make the parts look original because you have to machine all surfaces . were as castings you only have to machine the nessesary surfaces and the rest is left rough like the original castings. (hope that makes sense)

nick g: the engine im copying is a 1/3 scale of a full size engine. the model has 8" dia. flywheels and the original has 24" dia. flywheels.

ned ludd: yes the original is water cooled and the model will be water cooled as well. most of my models are water cooled but i never run water in
them cause they never get hot running at shows and i run them all day. the only time they stop is when they run out of fuel.

hope this answered your questions, if not let me know and i will try again. it is hard for me to explain things some times, i'm not a fluid with the lingo as bogs is.

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:58:28 AM »

Quote from: chuck foster on November 25, 2009, 09:43:34 PM

bernd: man did i walk into that one

Yeah, well I probably open my mouth some where along the line and it'll be your turn to stick my foot in my mouth.

Quote

hope this answered your questions, if not let me know and i will try again. it is hard for me to explain things some times, i'm not a fluid with the lingo as bogs is.

chuck

I don't think any body can be as fluid as Bog's, but I do know at least on contender on here that is.

I have the same problem. Sometimes I find it hard to put into words what I'm doing or thinking. So your not alone on this.

BTW I'm liking this thread. Somewere on the list of things to build I'm going to add a hit-n-miss engine. Keep up the good work and take your time.

Bernd

chuck foster · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:29:46 PM »

well here's tonight's installment on this adventure

i need to fabricate an ignitor for this engine and here is a picture of the one i'm copying

and here's the business end

so i began with a hunk of bronze

i then milled out the basic shape

used the edge finder so as to locate the various holes in the ignitor body

all the holes are now drilled, the hole on the far right is for bolts to hold the ignitor on the engine, the next hole is for the movable electrode, the next hole is for the insulate electrode and last but not least is the other bolt hole.

the finished ignitor body beside the original that i copied from

now i guess it would be a good idea to explain what an ignitor is and how it works, so i have copied a page that i found on the net that should explain it all

If the ends of two wires forming part of an electric circuit are brought in contact, closing the circuit and then quickly separated, a bright spark will be produced as the contact is broken. This phenomenon underlies the operative principle of what is known as the MAKE and BREAK system of ignition. In old stationary gas engine practice, the simplest kind of ignitor used city lighting direct current, with an incandescent lamp in series in order to prevent the current from being too strong.

An ignitor is made up of a set of mechanical points, much like the points in early vintage automobiles, except they are located INSIDE the combustion chamber. One side is insulated, the other side is at frame ground and they are mounted to an assembly that PROTRUDES INTO the combustion chamber. A capacitor (condenser) is NOT used across these points because sparking across the points is WANTED, unlike in a car where the heat and metal consumption of sparks would wear away the surface of the points needlessly. When the ignitor points "make" or close, a current will build up in an inductive coil that is in a series circuit. Then at the appropriate time, the points "break" and an inductive "kick" causes an arc to draw across the opening points. The gap opening is about 1/16". Even battery voltage itself will cause a small spark, but the more coil inductance that is in series with the points and battery, the hotter and bluer the arc created.

i hope that explains what an ignitor is and what it does.

chuck

NickG · « **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2009, 03:29:55 AM »

Cheers Chuck - that was going to be my question, I have never heard of or seen one of those before. Is this engine a hit and miss type? Ignore that, I have just looked at the pic and I can see it is.

Great project. What is the bore and stroke? This will actually have some useable power won't it?

Nick

ozzie46 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2009, 08:46:04 AM »

Great stuff on the igniter. Just the kind of stuff I need.

Ron

chuck foster · « **Reply #18 on:** November 27, 2009, 08:56:29 PM »

i'm glad the ignitor info was of some use. i have worked on the full size engines for the last 30 years so i sometimes
forget that some people don't know all the little details of these engines.
if i forget to explain something just ask and i will do my best to clarifiy it for you.

now on with tonight's adventure, making the trip pawl for the ignitor. it is the silver part circled in red

now i could have fabricated this part by silver soldering two pieces together but i thought i would try and making it out of one piece using my RT.
so i started with a round hunk of steel and drilled a 1/8" dia hole in the middle (using the lathe)

first i laid out a rough sketch of it with a marker then i just plunged a 1/8" dia end mill in to the steel to a depth of .300". i went to .300" because when i
part this finished piece off it has to be .250 thick.

then i advanced the RT 5 degrees and plunged the end mill again doing this procedure till i had the trip pawl outline cut.

next i put the piece in the lathe and parted it off, now this next picture shows the job half done

and finally the finished part beside the old one, it just needs to be trimmed to length.

the next piece to make was the movable electrode this was a fairly simple thing to make so i will only show the finished part.

it consists of three pieces silver soldered together, all that is left to do to it now is silver solder the nickel contact points were the red square is.

hopefully tomorrow i will be able to finish the ignitor and see if it will spark.
now it is off to listen to an old time radio program you british gent's might remember..............hancocks half hour.

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2009, 09:36:28 AM »

Chuck,

Nice bit of work making that all out of the solid. Who needs CNC.

Bernd

Ned Ludd · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2009, 08:10:17 PM »

Hi Chuck,
A British gent here, well English but lets not quibble. New bits looking good, better in fact than original. How long do you think it will take to finish whole thing?
Thinking of Hancock, if you go to the BBC home page and then select "I-player", then radio stations and then "7" . This radio station specializes in repeats of old radio shows, the I-player allows you to listen to these shows for up to a week after broadcast, and not an advert break to be heard! I don't think it is country sensitive, unlike some US TV shows .

Ned Ludd

chuck foster · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2009, 10:01:30 PM »

bernd: i would love to try cnc but i don't have the room for such things (shop is very small). i just got the RT about 3 or 4 months ago and i have not used it much so i thought why not try it out and see what i could make with it.

ned: thanks for the info on the bbc and old time radio shows. i have about 20,000 shows on disc so more is good

now if i could get them from the bbc site and record them on to disk for later listening

chuck

chuck foster · « **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:36:32 PM »

well another day has passed and i managed to get a few small parts done.

the first picture shows the govenor assembly (in the red square). this is on the model engine i'm copying. as you can see it is all oily and dirty....after all it has years worth of running.

in order to machine these parts i soft solder the piece to be machined to a piece of brass round stock. the round stock is held in the three jaw chuck in the lathe and the RT.

the next picture shows the govenor eccentric strap being machined out.

here the strap is finished and it just needs to be removed from the brass round stock

removed from round stock. it is amazing how strong soft solder is, i have never had a solder joint come apart while machining a part.

and here we have the finished part, it just needs a good polish and it will be done.

next up is the govenor weight. it was soldered to round stock just like the strap.

and here are both govenor pieces finished and ready to go on the new engine.

tomorrow i hope to finish a few pieces for the ignitor and it will be done.

ned i forgot to answer your question about how long will it take to finish the whole engine......................well that a very good question, if i continue to work at the pace i'm going at right now i'm hoping to have it all done by the first week of january (but i'm not telling what year)

take care guys
chuck

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:44:09 PM »

Holy crap there Chuck! Forgive me, I have been quite ill the last 5 months so I have missed a few things. What a banging start you got going there!

Eric

Darren · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:57:13 PM »

That soldering trick is neat, thanks for sharing that as I'm sure it will solve a lot of holding problems....

Just gotta figure out how to remember all these tips when the time comes

sbwhart · « **Reply #25 on:** November 30, 2009, 02:09:30 AM »

Great work Chuck.

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #26 on:** November 30, 2009, 03:28:35 AM »

Very nice techniques shown there Chuck.

This post is sure one to keep an eye on.

John

Ned Ludd · « **Reply #27 on:** November 30, 2009, 07:28:52 AM »

Hi Darren,
You ask how you will remember all the useful tips, well don't worry it will all be tucked away waiting to come to the fore when needed. Well maybe you will remember too late, once in a while!

Last night I was machining a custom crank arm for a mates carbon fibre trike, well I was scratching the old bone dome as to how to machine the tapered sides. I could use the RT but the clamps would get in the way, then "eureka" moment, as I remembered Bogstandard's way of using pins to machine tapered gibs. Couple of minutes with calculator and Trig tables, with job mounted in vice using two number drill shanks and Hey Presto, job done. Beauty of the system is that by swapping drills end for end you can do the two sides perfectly equally. Before you ask still no photos, must try and find the camera!
Ned Ludd

chuck foster · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2009, 08:50:02 PM »

you know it is funny how we think we are going to do something and end up doing something else instead

well i was hoping to finish off the ignitor tonight................well that didn't happen

i got out to the shop and started working on the cylinder, i installed a threaded boss on the side of the cylinder for the water cooler connection.
it is the brass piece near the bottom of the cylinder.

then i figured i would lap the bore to size (1.312")

i use a expandable brass barrel lap that is sold by a tool company called k.b.c. tools. to adjust the lap you turn the adjusting screw on the far right end of the lap.

here it is mounted in the lathe.as you can see i have a cloth covering the ways of the lathe, this is to prevent any lapping compound dripping onto the ways and ruining my lathe.

a closer shot

i spread lapping compound (in this case 150 grit) on to the lap with a small paint brush. then i dribble a small amount of cutting oil on the lap, just for some lubrication.

i then push the cylinder about 2" on to the lap. adjust the lap so you feel a small amount of drag when you try to turn the cylinder.

then i start the lathe (about 300 rpm) and slowly working the cylinder back and forth on the lap

while you are lapping you never want to pull the lap completely out of the cylinder bore. after a few minutes stop the lathe take the cylinder off the lap and clean out the cylinder bore and check to see if all the lathe machining marks are gone. if not tighten the lap about a quarter turn and repeat the whole process. when you are done you should have a nice cross hatch pattern in the cylinder bore like the next picture shows

i lap all the bores in my engines and i very rarely use piston rings, i just fit the piston to the bore with about 0.0002 to 0.0003 tho. clearence.
i have one engine that has about 1500 hours of running and it still has lots of compression.

eric: i didn't know you were ill, i hope all is well now my friend

darren: if you ever figure out how to remember all the ideas,tip's and tricks suggested on this forum........LET US KNOW HOW

well that,s all for tonight
chuck

Darren · « **Reply #29 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:00:00 AM »

That is looking right professional Chuck

bogstandard · « **Reply #30 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:15:37 AM »

It seems that soft faced laps are cheap and readily available in the US, but over here, even though they are available, you have to go in search of them.

I tend to use a brake cylinder hone with oil stones for doing the same job, but they are very limited because they won't do the small sizes that we usually come across, in that situation I use either a lap made from nylon rod or wooden dowel.

Very nice work indeed Chuck.

John

chuck foster · « **Reply #31 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:27:50 PM »

darren: thank you for your kind comment, i try to make things the best i can and i try to improve every time i make something.

bogs: laps are easy to get here in canada, i have them from 1 1/2" dia. down to .040" dia (the small ones are called needle eye laps)

well tonight i finally got to working on the ignitor

it's not finished but it is getting closer

the first two pictures show the trip finger that i rough out earlier

i then made the trip spring plate

this next two pictures show the two parts assembled, i still have to make a proper bolt instead of the phillips head screw

and the ignitor on the left is the new one and i'm coping the one on the right

well that's are for tonight

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #32 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:26:34 PM »

Chuck,

I was going to ask what an ignitor was but figured it's to give you a spark for ignition. I keep going back to the picture you show of the original.

What puzzels me is how it will work on the engine. Please don't tell me because I want to see if I can have an AH HA moment when I figure it out.

All I want to know is there more parts to make it function?

Nice job on the documentation and pics so far.

Bernd

chuck foster · « **Reply #33 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:39:41 AM »

bernd: you are 100% right..............an ignitor is used instead of a spark plug, it is a very simple device. it uses a 6 or 12 volt battery for the power source and a induction coil is wired in to the circuit. i won't tell any more..............so you can have your AH HA momment.
there is a couple of more parts to make it work, you will see them as this project comes together.

chuck

chuck foster · « **Reply #34 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:20:53 PM »

i didn't get any work done on the model but i did find a video of the original model, now the video is kinda crappy but it is what it is.

chuck

sbwhart · « **Reply #35 on:** December 04, 2009, 02:35:57 AM »

Lovely engine

Thanks for showing

Stew

chuck foster · « **Reply #36 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:53:47 PM »

well i managed to do some more work on this project, so i figured i had better start on the cylinder head. i think it is the most complicated part so here it goes.

the cylinder head that i'm copying

here is a picture showing the head beside the chunk of steel that will ( i hope ) become the new cylinder head.

i chose 12L14 for the head just because it machines easier than normal cold or hot rolled.

the next picture shows the piece merrily spinning in my lathe. the combustion chamber has been machined out and i'm turning down the o.d of the head.

then after the o.d. was close to size i marked out the outer profile of the head. i will be using the mill and rotary table to cut the outer profile.

well that's all for tonight, hopefully i will be able to work on this for the next few week's without any interuptions (like that will happen)

chuck

chuck foster · « **Reply #37 on:** December 13, 2009, 11:33:40 AM »

got a bit more done today

here we are milling the outer profile of the cylinder head

now i must apologize for the lack of progress photo's but the truth be known the wife borrowed the camera and i didn't want to wait for her to return it.
so the next photo shows the head almost done

the square hole cut into the side of the head is for the ignitor

this last picture shows the top of the cylinder head and the two 3/8" hole are for the valve guides

i used 12L14 steel, what a treat to use

now all i have to do some file work to clean up all the machining marks and press valve guides in, but that will have to wait...........domestic duties call

it was allot of milling and lathe work but it went well and i enjoyed the whole process.

chuck

Powder Keg · « **Reply #38 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:08:56 AM »

Any updates Chuck? That bore looks great!!! Where would one find laping compound?

chuck foster · « **Reply #39 on:** December 14, 2009, 07:41:01 AM »

hi wes: i just roughed out the cylinder head in the previous post dec/13/09, hope to get some more work done on it tonight.

as far as the lapping compound, i bought all of mine on ebay. i never looked any where else, im sure a google search would turn up several suppliers.

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #40 on:** December 14, 2009, 09:02:38 AM »

I bet Enco, MSC, McMaster Carr, etc..........would carry that in their catologs.

Bernd

chuck foster · « **Reply #41 on:** December 17, 2009, 08:56:37 PM »

well not much to report on this build (christmas functions are getting in the way) any who here is the cylinder head complete with valve guides and valves.

not much but that's all i could get done tonight.

chuck

OKTomT · « **Reply #42 on:** December 17, 2009, 09:12:26 PM »

Very nice I am enjoying this. Thanks for posting. how did you get the cast gray look and could you tell us how you cut the valve seats. Tom

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #43 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:20:58 AM »

Chuck,

That`s beautiful........

David D

Darren · « **Reply #44 on:** December 18, 2009, 05:12:02 AM »

Like tom I'm enjoying this thread too, there sure is some talent on this board

NickG · « **Reply #45 on:** December 18, 2009, 10:16:04 AM »

Yeah very nice work Chuck!

Nick

chuck foster · « **Reply #46 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:54:41 PM »

first off thanks: david,darren and nick the kind words help a project move a little easier

tom: i got the grey casting look by sand basting the cylinder head, the head is made out of 12L14 steel so it might blast different than mild steel.
as far as the valve seat's go i just set the head up in the mill and reamed the valve guides and without moving the head i used a 90 degree countersink to cut the valve seats.
then i just lapped them with 400 grit lapping compound.

today i was home alone, and i was able to get some work done

i started fabricating the crankshaft.
this is what i started with, 1/2" drill rod and 2 pieces of 3/4" x 3/8" cold rolled flat bar.

first thing to do is face off the longer of the two shaft's and center drill both ends. the center drilling makes the crankshaft look more like the original.

next i squared up both blocks of cold rolled

next thing to do is drill holes for the crankshaft and throw. these ones will be center drilled, drilled and then reamed to .499" .
reaming 0.001" under 1/2" makes for a nice snug fit for the crankshaft and throw.

here we have one throw done so i will have to do all of the above procedures one more time

and here we have both finished ready for the next step.

and the next step is to machine the end thrust cheek's, the picture show's what i mean.
i use a brass expanding lap to hold the parts to machine the end thrust cheek's. the brass lap was not designed for this procedure but if you take light cuts it will work fine.

now we can put all the pieces together and see if we have a crank. when putting all the parts together i use loc-tite red to help hold everything in place. after allowing time for the loc-tite to set i then drill and ream holes for tapered pin's. the pin's are driven into the reamed hole's.

tapered pin's in place

after the pin's are driven in place the end's of the pin's are cut off and filed flush with the crank throw's.

next step is to trim the ends of the crank throw pin

this crankshaft get's a 1/8" key way on in both ends of the shaft...........so here we go

first square the crank to the mill table, this ensures the key ways will be directly opposite the throw.

all thats left is to cut the key way and then turn the crank end for end and repeat the key way set up and cutting procedure.

here one end is done and the other is about to get a key way cut

with both key ways cut the next thing to do is cut the center of the crankshaft out. you can cut it out with a saw but i use the mill.

after cutting through just clean up the ends of the crank and you will have a finished crankshaft

the finished crankshaft

this is the way i have made all but one of my gas engine crankshafts (about 10 or 12 of them) and all have work without fail.
it is allot faster than trying to turn a crankshaft out of one piece in the lathe, i turned the crank for my fairbanks morse engine from a solid piece of steel, it took hours to get it right.
the crankshaft i made today took about 1 1/2 hours to complete.

well that's all for tonight as for tomorrow ..................... who knows

chuck

NickG · « **Reply #47 on:** December 20, 2009, 03:43:55 AM »

Very nice Chuck. I like that method, could be cut and paste into a how to guide. No messy solder to contend with there which is what I like about it. I've done a couple of simple crankshafts from solut but never with a proper centre journal and can imagine it would take hours and hours.

I will use this method if I choose to make the poppin flame licker engine.

Thanks,

Nick

Powder Keg · « **Reply #48 on:** December 20, 2009, 05:09:08 AM »

Nice job on the crank there Chuck!

Bernd · « **Reply #49 on:** December 20, 2009, 11:38:43 AM »

Very nice write up Chuck.

Bernd

cfellows · « **Reply #50 on:** December 20, 2009, 11:51:31 AM »

Hi Chuck,

Just found this thread and am enjoying it immensely. You sure don't let any grass grow when you tackle a project! Wish I had half your get-up-n-go! I've been putzing around with my Henry Ford plumbing parts engine for months now.

The Domestic and it's counterpart the IHC Famous are two of my favorite vertical engines. I really like what you are doing here. I have to say, you make things look a lot easier than I know them to be!

I do have a question. What is the big drawback of an igniter system? Seems to be simpler than points, coil, and spark plug...

Chuck

cfellows · « **Reply #51 on:** December 20, 2009, 12:03:37 PM »

One other question... don't want to get ahead of you here, but are you also planning to fabicate your own flywheels? Clearly I'll wait for that part of the series, but was just wondering.

Thx...
Chuck

chuck foster · « **Reply #52 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:35:11 PM »

the reason this engine is progressing has allot to do with this forum and the kind replies that people have made about this project. to that i say thank you one and all

chuck i have been following your henry ford engine build and i think you are doing a great job. you have been building and experimenting with different valve set up (running on air) but most of all i think you are having fun.............and that's the main thing, keep the hobby enjoyable.
most things are easy if you remember to take thing's one step at a time.
as for the flywheel's....................well i was going to fabricate them but the steel supplier told me that two pieces of steel 8" in diameter x 1 1/8" thick was going to cost $100.00
so i email bob herders about the flywheel casting's and they are going to cost me $105.00 delivered to my door.................so i thought i better just buy the casting's.

personally i like an ignitor, you don't have to have point's and a high tension coil. i have 4 or 5 model engines with ignitors and i have never had a problem with them. they are simple to make and work very well.

today i managed to make the base for this engine. now i did the welding and fabrication at work so i don't have any pictures of the step's involved.
here is the base after welding and grinding. one thing is for sure................i can't fabricate or weld like tom, man he did an excellent job on the benz engine

the first thing i machined on it was the top were the cylinder and main bearings mount. then i had to cut a hole through the top to allow the crankshaft to rotate.

here the hole has been cut

next i drilled and tapped the holes for the cylinder mounts and main bearings

i had to cut out the bottom edges of the base to make it look like the original. by using the boring head i was able to make quick work of that.

i had to do these cut out's on all four sides. here is a picture of the original base beside the one i fabricated.
in this picture you can see the cresent shaped cut out's. now i know the base i made is taller than the original but i still have to fly cut the bottom's of the feet to thin them out. they are thicker than the original.............why..............cause i screwed up

and made them 1/2" thick instead of 1/4"

well that's all for today, hopefully i can get some more done tomorrow............like a connecting rod

thanks guy's

chuck

sbwhart · « **Reply #53 on:** December 22, 2009, 02:21:31 AM »

Great work with the base Chuck, really enjoying and learning with this thread.

Cheers

Stew

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #54 on:** December 22, 2009, 03:13:32 AM »

Great Build Chuck ,,,,,,,,,,GREAT READ

Regards Rob

NickG · « **Reply #55 on:** December 22, 2009, 07:48:58 AM »

Chuck,

Forgot to ask, what angle taper was on the tapered pins for the crank and were the holes normal or tapered. I will have to read through the igniter bit again to get my head around it I think.

Nick

chuck foster · « **Reply #56 on:** December 27, 2009, 08:22:18 PM »

you guys are too kind with your comments and i'm glad you are enjoying this thread.

nick i think standard taper pins have a diametral taper ¼ in. in 12 in. (0.6 cm in 30 cm)

i haven't been doing much in the shop the last few days due to all the holiday function's but now that's over i hope to get some work done.

i did manage to fabricate the main bearings for this engine. now i didn't photograph all the machining step's because i think you guy's will figure thing's out from the pictures.

the first order of business was to cut out the pieces of brass that would be needed

i then soft soldered the two set's of bearing halves together. the bottom half of the bearing has a flat on the bottom and the top half is rounded as you can see in the picture

i then faced off the bearing halves in the lathe. next i center drilled and then drilled them under size. the reason for drilling under size is the fact that i have to silver solder some more pieces to the bearing halves and i will ream the holes to size after the silver soldering.

roughed out and ready for the next step

the next step was to mill little cresent shaped cut out's, this will be were the pieces get silver soldered into.

here the part's are silver soldered in place (not very good at silver soldering)

i gave the bearings a bit of a cleaning but once they are fitted to the engine they will get a complete polish

the next piece was the cylinder support rods, now nothing fancy here just a bit of turning and threading to get the job done.
the four silver rod's in the picture are the original one's that i had to copy. i made the new one's out of brass for a different look.

well that's all for today, the next pieces to make are the connecting rod and piston.

i hope this all makes sense, if not just let me know and i will try and re-write it.

chuck

Powder Keg · « **Reply #57 on:** December 27, 2009, 09:30:04 PM »

Looking pretty All right Chuck!!! I really like the built up connecting rods.

chuck foster · « **Reply #58 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:23:27 PM »

well i got out to the shop early today and managed to get the connecting rod almost done!

the first picture show's the original connecting rod and the piece of steel i'm going to use to make the new one is in the milling machine vise.
now i'm not going to make a connecting rod exactly like the original, i'm going to make a round rod instead of an "I" beam style rod. i think a round rod will look better with the round cylinder support rod's.

the first step is to center drill,drill and ream the bearing hole for the wrist pin. the wrist pin bearing will be a bronze bearing.

next i put the piece of steel in my lathe and started turning the middle section round

here the lathe work is done, now all i have to do is finish shaping the wrist pin end and make the wrist pin bearing and the big end bearing.

here it is sitting beside the original cast brass "I" beam rod

well now it's off to visit some of my wife's family. hope to get some work done tonight.

chuck

chuck foster · « **Reply #59 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:57:20 PM »

got some time in the shop tonight and i finished the connecting rod for this engine.

i manage to get the exhaust rocker arm 1/2 done as well. the original rocker arm is the brass one.

i started work on the ignitor trip rod guide bracket. here is the original one

now this bracket has a funny twist in it as can be seen in the following picture. i was wondering how to make the twist just perfect

so instead of getting too technical i just gripped the piece in the mill vise and twisted it with my adjustable wrench.

here it is sitting beside the original, now i left the piece unfinished because as i build the rest of the engine i will cut this bracket to fit.

i managed to finish the exhaust rocker push rod, it is a very simple piece and here it is.

it has a thread on one end to adjust the valve clearance.

and that my friends is all for tonight, tomorrows mission is to finish the exhaust rocker arm and all the ignitor trip stuff.
i'm getting excited and just can't wait to hear it run.

chuck

Darren · « **Reply #60 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:10:44 AM »

It's looking great and coming along nicely

Is the rocker arm cast, if so where did it come from

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #61 on:** December 29, 2009, 08:36:51 AM »

Hi Chuck

Great job ,i like the way you made the main bearing

,,cant wait to see it running

Regards Rob

Bernd · « **Reply #62 on:** December 29, 2009, 09:55:36 AM »

Lookin' good Chuck.

And about that twist, not bad. Almost looks like the original.

Nice fabrication job on the whole engine by the way.

Bernd

chuck foster · « **Reply #63 on:** December 31, 2009, 12:55:50 PM »

darren the rocker arm is fabricated, so far the only part's that will be castings are the flywheel's the rest will be fabricated.
fabricating takes more time but so far i'm enjoying the whole project.

next up is the cam shaft bearings and the original looks like this

here are the part's used to fabricate one bearing (i need two bearings for this engine)

the bearing center gets two cut out's were the bolt posts go

next picture show's a complete bearing assembly ready for silver soldering

silver soldered and ready for cleaning

cleaned and installed on the engine

well now it's off to look at some full size gas engine's and one might just follow me home

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #64 on:** December 31, 2009, 01:19:50 PM »

Nice Chuck,

They almost look like castings. Can't wait to see this engine running.

Bernd

chuck foster · « **Reply #65 on:** January 02, 2010, 09:33:39 PM »

not much to report but i did manage to build a drip oiler for the engine

followed by the exhaust valve lock off mechanizim. i forgot to put the ruler in the picture to give an idea of what size it is.
that ugly black set screw in the middle of the first picture is #4-40

and i got a start on the carb.

the carb needed four # 2-56 bolts, now i didn't have any bolt's so i had to make them from some 1/8" hex bar.
it was a very straight forward turning and threading job............and here is one of the bolt's finished

it is hard to describe the function of some of these part's, such as the exhaust valve lock off mechanizim.
so what i was thinking is, if my camera will co-operate i will try to do a short video describing the function of the various part's.
as always if you have a question about what i'm doing please ask and i will try to answer the question as best i can.

chuck

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #66 on:** January 03, 2010, 03:39:58 AM »

Chuck you are doing a fab job on this one -love the bearings (will have to learn to silver solder/ braze some time)

Gerhard

chuck foster · « **Reply #67 on:** January 03, 2010, 08:33:26 PM »

i figured today i would make the muffler for this engine. the plans do not show what the muffler should look like so i went looking around on the net for a picture of one.
after getting the picture and see what it should look like i set about making the pieces that would be needed.

first off i would need a 1" long 1/16 n.p.t. nipple so here it is

then a muffler back plate.

then i made the front plate. first picture showing the hollowed out inside portion.

this next picture shows the edge of the front plate and it shows the cut out's that allow the exhaust gases to escape.

then i needed to make three #4-40 hex head bolt's to hold it all together

all the pieces required to make a muffler

and the finished product

and here it is mounted on the engine

the last picture shows the engine as of tonight jan/03/10

gerhard silver soldering has opened up a whole new world of fabricating for me. up until about 3 month's ago i would electric weld some of the bigger part's i needed and i would bolt the smaller pieces together. both of those method's work but silver soldering id much quicker and neater. give it a try, you will like the result's.

chuck

Bernd · « **Reply #68 on:** January 03, 2010, 09:26:13 PM »

That's a mighty fine looking engine you have built there Chuck.

When is it going to be running?

No pressure.

Bernd

NickG · « **Reply #69 on:** January 04, 2010, 06:57:47 AM »

Chuck,

you're churning these parts out quickly!

I was just about to ask for an overall assembly pic but there it was - and it looks amazing!

Nick

spuddevans · « **Reply #70 on:** January 04, 2010, 08:43:28 AM »

That's looking real nice, I cant wait to see it running

Tim

chuck foster · « **Reply #71 on:** January 04, 2010, 08:27:52 PM »

thanks for the kind comment's guys but this project is now on hold till i order the flywheel castings and get some paying jobs finished in my little shop.

there just never seams to be enough hours in a day to get thing's done

thanks again for following along and i will let you guys know when i get the flywheel castings

chuck

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