Author Topic: Union Lathe .... Help !!!  (Read 21020 times)

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2009, 04:41:19 AM »
Thanks for that John, just what I need for my Milling machine in 415V.  :thumbup:

Remember I said the table transverse motor runs continuously whenever the power is on, select engagement and direction with a lever. That's prob why this part I'm painfully trying to make is worn out. It's continuously working when most of the time it doesn't need to be.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2009, 04:46:15 AM »
Where did you find that switch? All I can find is "coming soon" with no details, can't find a search box either  :scratch:
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bogstandard

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2009, 04:50:51 AM »
This is a snatched pic out of their downloadable catalogue. As yet, these switches aren't on their site.

If you phone them up with the number before midday it will usually be with you next day.

I had it switching a half horse single phase.

John
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 04:53:58 AM by bogstandard »

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 04:59:41 AM »
Thanks John, that's a big help as I have been searching for such an item, best I could find was about £60 ...... ta !!!  :thumbup:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 06:59:18 AM »
I'm almost tempted to get the credit card out ...... oh my that is having some wiered effect on me for some reason .....  :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SMART-BROWN-MODEL-A-CENTRE-LATHE-TURNING_W0QQitemZ320434952130QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4a9b6957c2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2009, 07:08:20 AM »
Darren, when you are winding it back by hand using the big countershaft pulley, the relative sizes of that and the motor pulley means that you are fighting the ratio and trying to turn the motor much faster. Is there a quick and easy way to slacken off the belts between cuts? Loosening the one from the c'shaft to the spindle would be best, because you could then just turn the leadscrew handle (if there is one) with a bit of gearing down (8:6) between it and the chuck. If no handwheel, turn the chuck by hand, taking care that it doesn't come unscrewed from the spindle - OK, the ratio from spindle to leadscrew is uphill at 6:8, but that shouldn't be hard if you eat your breakfast Weetabix.



Andy

You know what Andy?

You are right, thanks for making me feel so stupid   :doh:

Flip the belt tension lever to disengage the motor and counter shaft and spin the lathe in reverse using the leadscrew hand wheel is oh so easy .....  :bang: :bang: :bang:

I'm going off to hide now till my blushing has gone .......  


What a great place this forum is......  :clap:
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Offline andyf

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2009, 08:09:06 AM »
Don't beat yourself up, Darren. I'm the man who spent hours making a component for my lathe, and was delighted with getting it (almost) perfect in every detail. And it would have fitted perfectly too, if the lathe had been a mirror image  :bang:

You must be threading at low speed; might really sharp HSS give a better finish than the carbide tool shown in your pics?

Andy



Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

bogstandard

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2009, 08:47:28 AM »
Darren,

I didn't realise it had a handwheel until just mentioned, so I went to have a look.

On my screen your pictures actually spill over the RHS and you have to move the bar at the bottom to see that part.

Maybe reducing your piccies a little bit so we can get the full picture :lol:


John

Offline NickG

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2009, 08:53:28 AM »
I never thought you'd be able to turn the whole spindle over with the leadscrew handwheel .. is that just possible because the back gear is engaged then?

That smart and brown looks stunning ... imagine how rigid that must be, seems a good price.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2009, 09:26:01 AM »
John, Sorry about the pic's, they are the smallest my camera will take and even then PB reduces them further automagicaly. I don't really want to edit every picture?

Nick, I dunno, just bumbling along me is......  :ddb:
Yep I'm itching to buy that S&B .... I really shouldn't, but if I sold my other mill and this Union lathe......... :coffee:


So back to the story, I chucked another bit of stock in and had a go with Andy's suggestions ....  :doh:

This is what I ended up with, I cut the main out with the carbide tip but that is 60 deg and I want 55. So I finished with HSS ground to 55. And it chattered  :bang:

To be fair it's the top slide that's at fault here, I need to remove it and make a toolpost to fit the crosslide dovetails.

Anyway, the flash makes it look worse than it is by loads, it's almost OK and fits the the other wheel just fine. It even spins it nicely...... A bit more to go and I'll almost be there...





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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2009, 09:39:53 AM »
Sorry Nick, just re-read your question,

No you can't spin it by the leadscrew handle when in backgear, just too much effort needed.

I'm doing all this in normal low speed gear about 160 rpm. Sounds quick for threading 6pi but it's ok I'm comfortable with it.
I could change the motor pulley to aa smaller one I have to get 135 rpm but it hardly seems worth it.
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Offline NickG

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2009, 09:47:34 AM »
Oh right! I thought with the back gear engaged it'd be easier to spin over from that end! Perhaps I'm getting confused  :doh:

You should buy it!!!! If you don't, someone else will. I remember when I was looking at lathes, some I went to see people had just bought them to do a specific job, e.g. a colchester student just to drill 200 bits of steel bar etc! sacrilege!

That looks like a very good thread to me, what are you making again?

Nick





Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2009, 09:55:23 AM »
Backgear is easier from the front end of the gear train (motor) but harder at the other end (handwheel)  :thumbup:

I'm making a replacement part for my milling machine .

Or trying to ....  :med:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2009, 11:02:59 AM »
Oh poo, he's offered me that lathe delivered free for the price ....

I'm in trouble now !!!

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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2009, 11:20:30 AM »
Anybody near Dudley that can offer me some of their spare time that knows their way around a lathe that could give this the once over for me?

Just on the off chance I thought I'd ask .... fingers on the button but it's the "not seen" that's holding me back.
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Offline NickG

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2009, 11:23:48 AM »
If it's rubbish, couldn't you just use the paypal thing to your advantage for once  :lol:

Seriously though you're right, you need to see these things before buying. I couldn't try mine as it was 3 phase but at least I could turn it over, wind slides around etc.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2009, 11:26:28 AM »
Now Now Nick....

We're honest folk here ...... it would work though, but he might be bigger than me ....  :wack:
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Offline andyf

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2009, 12:34:24 PM »
Quote
Before he started daydreaming about his next lathe, Darren wrote: This is what I ended up with, I cut the main out with the carbide tip but that is 60 deg and I want 55. So I finished with HSS ground to 55. And it chattered 
To be fair it's the top slide that's at fault here, I need to remove it and make a toolpost to fit the crosslide dovetails.

Though it's a bit laborious, could you lock the topslide gib up for the finishing passes?

BTW, how did you work out that 55 degrees was the correct angle to match the worm wheel?

Andy
(off to France in the wee small hours to spend a week making sure the vintage is OK :beer: Mon Dieu - wrong glass!)
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2009, 12:53:18 PM »
Hi Andy, it's not the gibs but the way the topslide mounts to the carriage..... I'll post a pic later. I'm on the case though  :dremel:
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Offline andyf

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2009, 01:06:14 PM »
If space permits, try a G-cramp to hold the topslide firmly down to the cross-slide.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2009, 01:57:51 PM »
Oh poo, he's offered me that lathe delivered free for the price ....

I'm in trouble now !!!   

Yup, your right  :clap: ............. they had a Smart and Brown at RDG when I was looking round, just before I bought my Boxford, very nice piece of kit  :thumbup: but, at the best part of a ton, much too heavy for me to get into my little den unfortunately. 

Would make a nice addition to your new workshop mind  :ddb:

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2009, 10:30:38 AM »
I mentioned the topslide had a really naff mounting, here it is. The slide is upside down and you can see the roundy bit that fits in the hole on the carriage. Secured with a single grubscrew from the side. It's prob OK'ish with normal turning but not for what I'm doing at the mo.



So having decided to remove the topslide altogether I now needed a way to secure the toolpost directly to the carriage. Having T-slots made doing this quite simple.
This is what I came up with. It's a raiser block made from steel bar with one central 10mm thread for the toolpost and two 8mm through holes for 8mm bolts to clamp with the T-nut.



A couple of pic's, I won't go into making the block as that should be fairly obvious to anyone here.
I had to clamp all the bits together to make sure it all fitted properly. So in this state it was clear that some other tasks would be easier to manage.

Sawing the T-bar to length



Centred the block in the four jaw and trimmed the ends of the bar equally, not necessary but why not as it was now in place. Then I trimmed both 8mm bolts to a suitable length. Note the use oh a HSS tool, I have learnt not to try this with carbide tips ....



A little de-burring and now fitted to the lathe carriage



QCTP fitted...lovely ... that should help the chatter I was getting from the compound slide ....  :)







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Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2009, 10:32:07 AM »
Bogs, changed the settings in Photobucket, is that better for you  :thumbup:

I can't tell cos I have widescreen..... posh eh ...  :coffee:
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Offline NickG

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2009, 11:07:22 AM »
Darren,

I was going to say last night that you could change the defaults in photobucket! Fat lot of use I am!  :doh: Yes, they don't go off the screen now.

Do you have 3 different lathes at the moment then? Presumably the smart and brown you were looking at could do all the jobs the other 3 could, although not at the same time  :lol:

Nick

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: Union Lathe .... Help !!!
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2009, 11:46:53 AM »
Hi Nick,

Yes I'm blessed with three lathes and not one to get me where I want to be  :doh:
Ain't that always the way.... :)

I would prob keep the S&B lathe as that is a turret and a 5C collet lathe that spins up to 3,000 rpm, so quite useful in it's own right. I have had the need in the past to churn parts out and once set up it can manage 100 parts an hr all identical. I intend to go there again at some point.

The Union can go once I get another screwcutting lathe. TBH once I've finished fettling with it it's not a bad little machine which could easily be improved further.

The 7x12, I'll prob keep simply because of all the work John has done on it and it's now a sweet little thing. Besides it takes no room. If I do decide to let it go I'll offer it here first. But that may or may not happen.

I did a bit of research last night and got in touch with some guys on the S&B Yahoo group. That lathe according to them is quite overpriced which surprised me so I'm hanging fire at the mo while I think some more.
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)