Author Topic: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike  (Read 37845 times)

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2009, 03:58:00 AM »
John,

Just as an example and piece of mind set the lathe for say 10 tpi [ easy to measure ] engage half nuts and move forward to take slack out and finish up about 8" from the chuck.
Mark a jaw with pen and bring it round by hand so it butts onto a bar between the jaw and the bed. This will give a know position, measure from that jaw to the tool.

Now turn the lathe 60 revs and stop it at the same jaw with the same bar stop, measure again, Has it moved exactly 6" ?

Obviously you need to keep turning one way only because of backlash and all by hand so there are no accidents and jam up and it will be interesting to see the results.

John S.
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bogstandard

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2009, 02:44:09 PM »
John,

Thanks for the tip. Isn't it nice when you have people brainier than yourself helping out?

I have just been thinking about it (my brain cell now hurts), and if I zero my DRO after all the backlash has been taken out, I should be able to check the overall movement to an accuracy of 0.0001".

Now THAT will really tell me how close it can get.

Nice one John.

I will get it done tomorrow and let you know the results.


John

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2009, 03:14:29 PM »
Duh,
Forgot you had the DRO fitted, even easier then.
John Stevenson

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2009, 12:57:57 AM »
These are pictures that have been taken over a period of time when I felt like doing a bit in the shop over the last week or so.

The last post finished off where I had made the perfectly true running nut, and then found out that the ali boss had been welded onto the outer case way off centre.

This shot show just how far off centre it really was. Whoever did it had no thought about getting the two critical parts centred to each other, and because of that, has caused this complete rework. Damned amateurs!!!




I stripped the crank out of the case, and got the case clamped to the table using the strongpoints already on the case half.




Then using the main datum on the engine, the crank bearing, I zeroed up the mill to it.




Zeroed up and the table locked up solid.




Because the case has oil galleries drilled all around it, plus the open main bearing, I sealed everything up with pure aluminium tape. This tape will not be removed until every bit of swarf from the machining has been cleaned up.




Luckily, the outer cover has two datum pins built in, so the cover should always go back into exactly the same place each time. The cover was bolted to the already clamped crankcase half.




Then it was just a case of rough boring until all signs of the old thread had been removed.




Once the threads were machined away, I did a very fine bore to clean everything up and get it to an easily remembered size.




This shot shows how close this job had come to being a complete failure. If the block had been welded 1/8" further away from central, it would have been almost impossible to rescue by using this method.




A recess was made to as large a size as I dared go, without the risk of breaking thru the edge of the boss, taking into account I will be dressing up the boss a little later.




It is a bit of lathe time now. A lump of ali was turned down until it was a nice sliding fit in the larger recess I had just bored.




A spigot was then turned onto the end of the bar, 0.002" (0.05mm) smaller than the thru hole I had bored, and of the correct length to fit thru the casing. The smaller size is to allow clearance for the loctite I will be using.




The plug was parted off, all parts to do with the assembly were given a good spirits clean down. Then it was assembled using hi strength loctite and left to cure a while.




As you all know, I throw away nothing that might have a use in my shop. This time it was an old ali knitting needle. I have found that the metal in them is a lot more rigid than normal ali bar, and once the outer coating has been cleaned off, it makes great pins for holding ali bits together.
So, I hand drilled two holes roughly 90 degs apart that penetrated well into the plug, then with loctite on the end of the pins, they were hammered into position. This is a belts and braces way of fixing. That plug is going nowhere fast.




Then it was just a matter of putting the cover back onto the still zeroed case, and drilling out with the right sized drill (7/16") for cutting a new 1/2" BSF thread.




Everything perfectly square and the new thread was cut.




The final act was to skim the top face with a fly cutter.




So except for blending this welded on boss into the case to make it look like it has always been there, it is just a matter of machining up the drive nut and takeoff.

Hopefully.


Bogs

Offline dsquire

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2009, 01:31:08 AM »
John

Excellent rescue. You have a way of making look easy what to some looks near impossible.

When you look at the way the case was welded up you wonder what they were thinking. I guess the answer is that they wern't.

Cheers :beer:

Don

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2009, 02:45:04 AM »
Don,

This engine is in fact 50 years old this year, so it has had all sorts of mods done to it using old 'that will do' technology. Most have worked, some, like this one, haven't. You don't even want to see the crank, where they have attempted to reduce the swept volume by 'sticking' ali plates into the recesses. That is another thing I need to sort out.

I am hopefully going to try to give this engine another 50 years of life, and although it will never be raced again, it will be brought out of mothballs for a few weeks each year, to go around race circuits to show what these bikes from the past looked and sounded like.
I think it is called 'preserving our heritage', and is the reason I don't charge for work like this.

Things I do sometimes, do look easy, that is because they are. It is all to do with having the b***s to make a decision and get on with it, and use straight forwards engineering practices to get it back to how it should be. This outer cover, to the owner, is priceless. It could be replaced with another, but it wouldn't be the original one off the engine, with all it's associated history. Even though I am doing major changes to it, it is and will be listed in the bikes' history of modifications done to it. I actually have other mods that need doing to this cover, but they won't be shown as they are not repairs, but upgrades to old work that have worn out over the years of racing, like putting in phos bronze bushes in place of the brass ones originally used, and doing a better gas flowing job on this crankcase bottom half.

All this work is done on a slot in basis. If I can find the time to do it, it gets done. Otherwise I goes onto the pile to be done another time. If all goes well, and I feel up to it, this engine will have another weeks spare time work done on it, then put back on the pile awaiting other mods and repairs to be done. No rush, the bike won't be finally assembled until this time next year.

John

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2009, 04:36:30 AM »
Very nice John, great to see these babies are still appreciated... :clap:

Almost makes me want one....again..... :doh:
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2009, 05:41:08 AM »
Very interesting Mr Bogs, I like to watch work on things like that.

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2009, 06:18:34 AM »
Darren,

My bike is 20 years old now, and was going to get rid of it because of my problem of getting my leg over (no filthy thoughts or comments please), but now that it has the auto park and ride off stand fitted to it, it makes it a lot safer to climb on and off, plus I don't need to be very strong to hold it upright for a long period. Scramble on, select the gear and ride off, the stand auto retracts, and to park, select reverse, push down on the stand side bar, press a button and the bike parks itself. So now I have decided to keep it and restore it over time.
Most of it is just ali and stainless polishing and getting the electrics sorted (removing hundreds of display lights), as a good friend of ours has said he will scramble around the floor to do the only bit of mechanical work that needs doing, nice one Ralph :thumbup:

It is all too easy to break these bikes up and sold for spares, but it is a lot more enjoyable keeping them running as they should.

It seems like all the younger generation want is speed, noise, and to turn themselves into organ donors. It us up to us old pharts to show them what motorcycling was, and is, all about.

Besides, if I drove my car continuously for an hour, I would be off my legs for at least a day, maybe more. When I get on the bike, all aches and pains disappear and I could ride forever. So in the near future, it might be the only means I will have of getting around.


John

Offline ozzie46

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2009, 07:23:46 AM »


  Great work John, You never cease to amaze me.

  Ron

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2009, 09:15:27 AM »
John,
Why not part true the OD of the boss up with a left hand boring tool, [ no joke they do exist but John probably knows that and has some ]

John S.

PS Did you check the pitch when in imperial ?
John Stevenson

bogstandard

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2009, 09:22:18 AM »
John,

Actually, I was just about to remount it to do just that, I have just been scribing around the takeoff fitting to give me the size I should go to.

But I am using a standard cutter facing inwards and running the mill in reverse (I knew I would get to use that feature one day).

John

ADDED LATER

Just had Stew down to visit and we put it up onto the table. It won't work, can't get enough all round depth to clean it up, so it will have to be done with a normal cutter and eyeball.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 10:15:35 AM by bogstandard »

bogstandard

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2009, 04:05:11 PM »
Not much to show this time, as I have been doing other work on this part and the engine.

Because I couldn't use John's suggestion of using an inner cutting boring tool, I had to mount the cover onto the RT and do the job freehand using a ball nosed cutter to shape the boss and weld area so that it would look like it was part of the original cover casting.
It didn't take more than about ten minutes once I got the RT fitted up with a mandrel to hold the cover and get it centralised.




A bit of work with a small drum sander in the mini drill soon had it basically to shape and blended in nicely.




It was at this time I had to make some phos bronze bushes to fit this cover and an internal hole in the crankcase as well. The kick start had been removed years ago, but all the operating mechanism had been left in. It was now the time to get the engine modded to remove it completely, and save a few pounds in weight. So now the gear lever shaft has it's own internal and external support bearings rather than relying on the kick start mechanism to do the job.
So after that, I got this bit reworked by banging out all the dents, and blending out the scratches it had picked up during it's life. Then onto the buffing machine to get everything blended together using a hard sisal mop and some heavy cutting soap, then back to the mini polisher to blend the bits I couldn't get at.




So this is after the first polish of the ali engine covers. As you can now see, the original welded on boss looks like it has been part of this engine since it's manufacture, I even managed to shape some of the weld to run up the boss like an extension of the cast on centre line, making it look even more like it was part of the original casting.
I can't do any more to this at this time. The other day I replaced the bearings in the crankcase, and I am still waiting for another one to fit. Without it, I can't assemble the crank in the case and carry out the machining on the two bits that this post is all about.




A good shower needed now, I look like Al Jolson, from all the buffing I have done.


Bogs

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2009, 04:11:55 PM »
Mammeeeee, the sun shines east [ on a good day ]  :wave:

John S.
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bogstandard

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2009, 04:48:54 PM »
You've just reminded me John, so I have popped out to the shop and got my notes.

Readings when I checked my lathe for doing imperial threading.

I decided to check using the 16 TPI I already had set up. Which should give 0.0625" movement per revolution.


No of turns on chuck       Saddle movement

  2                                    0.124"
  4                                    0.249"
  8                                    0.498"
 16                                   0.998"
 24                                   1.498"
 32                                   1.998"
 40                                   2.498"
 48                                   2.998"

So it looks like there was a minute amount of backlash to take up at the beginning, then after that, everything was absolutely perfect. So now I know that at least I can cut 16 TPI and know it is correct. I think I will do a few more different settings, just to see if it is still as accurate.

John

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2009, 04:52:54 PM »
Great job John

You've really transformed it  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2009, 05:10:12 PM »
Lovely finish John, looks factory now..... :thumbup:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2009, 05:20:03 PM »
You've just reminded me John, so I have popped out to the shop and got my notes.

Readings when I checked my lathe for doing imperial threading.

I decided to check using the 16 TPI I already had set up. Which should give 0.0625" movement per revolution.


No of turns on chuck       Saddle movement

  2                                    0.124"
  4                                    0.249"
  8                                    0.498"
 16                                   0.998"
 24                                   1.498"
 32                                   1.998"
 40                                   2.498"
 48                                   2.998"

So it looks like there was a minute amount of backlash to take up at the beginning, then after that, everything was absolutely perfect. So now I know that at least I can cut 16 TPI and know it is correct. I think I will do a few more different settings, just to see if it is still as accurate.

John

magic.
piece of mind for when you come to do any other imperial work.

John S.
John Stevenson

Offline dsquire

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2009, 06:14:35 PM »
John

You have got her looking good now John. Good job.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers :beer:

Don

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Offline John Hill

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2009, 06:36:14 PM »
Nice polish work there John, perhaps you could spend a bit of time with the Autosol on my Douglas next time you call by? :lol:
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bogstandard

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2009, 04:25:47 AM »
John,

There is no comparison with Autosol, that is too much like hard work.

Autosol gives a slightly grey overall shine, whereas with a buffing mop and the correct soap you can get that almost chrome, deep lustre on ali, and because of the waxes in the soap, the shine lasts much longer, as the oxide layer is protected from the elements.

A quick spray over with a household polish (I use Mr.Sheen) every now and again, and that shine will last for years.

Even a mop mounted on an electric drill will give better results than Autosol.

I actually use Autosol on my mini drill mop as an intermediate cutting agent, then finish off using the correct grade soap.


John

Offline Bernd

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2009, 07:33:28 AM »
Bogs,

I'm impressed not only do you make excellent parts by machines, but can really bling (both shiny & repair ) up a piece of cast material as well.  :bow:

Nice job and an excellent thread on repairing a casting that was botched up from the begining.  :thumbup:

Bernd
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2009, 12:00:32 PM »
Just going back to using the boring head in reverse. If its an imported one like mine and it looks like it is then the black body just screws to the arbour and running in reverse can cause it to unscrew. I had this happen to me when trying to machine an external boss using a standard bit, luckily no damage.

So if anyone is thinking of doing external machining check how the two parts fit, if screwed then grind up a suitable bit so the machine can fun in forwards.

Interesting recovery of an old part BTW

Jason

bogstandard

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2009, 12:44:44 PM »
Jason,

A very good point indeed.

The way I get around it is that I Loctite everything together on first assembly. I have even drilled and tapped for a locking screw as well before now.
The only bad thing about sticking things together, don't ever expect to get them apart again (without heat).

John

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Getting a tacho drive fixed on a classic racing bike
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2009, 02:51:06 PM »
I've really enjoyed reading this thread John, and learnt a lot (as usual), thanks  :clap:

CC