What will happen?

[28ten]

There a lot of interesting points raised here, it is point raised on other forums I frequent, and in my local cycling club there is a constant worry that no youngsters are joining, so it isn't just restricted to 'making things'
I share the glass half full view that Unless schools teach the youngsters, and there are jobs for trained apprentices,  the skills will disappear in a generation.
My local model engineers club is very good at involving the youngsters. hopefully this will bear fruit and one or two will go on to pursue the hobby as they grow older.

[Darren]

Isn't it all relative, I mean what is fascinating or important to you doesn't mean it has to be to the next generation.

Maybe it's us that are not moving on.

There are plenty of new designs, it happens almost daily.....just not in our world. But I'm sure those involved are very excited and don't clutch onto the past as we seem to do.


The whole world is moving, don't expect it to stop for your sentimentality....

[bogstandard]

That was the reason for this post Darren, it seems we have to go back to the past to find something worth making.

What I want to identify is how recent do we have to go before there is nothing to focus our hobby on.

Ripslider has pointed to maybe new powerplants for models, but that would only appeal to a very select few model engineers.

Almost anything can be scaled down, with a bit of artistic licence, to get around manufacturing and scale size problems, but what do we copy? A model of the Chunnel digging machine? Rather a boring thing to watch in action.

It is very difficult to come up with miniature copies of interesting modern machines, because there is a distinct lack of them. So we have to come up with using old ideas in a new way, or new ideas used in an old context.

There is one area that is having a massive resurgence because of a modern way of looking at an old idea. Ten years ago, you hardly ever heard of a model Stirling engine being made, it being restricted to experimental model engineers. But since the green brigade started kicking up a stink, and manufacturers thought it was the thing to save the world from our forthcoming plight, everybody and his dog are using the old formulae to make more powerful and efficient versions of the Stirling type, even in model form.

How about fitting cars with a modern day designed hit 'n miss engine, that fired once every half mile. 500 MPG would then be within easy reach. Beats hybrids any day. For high performance motors, they would fire every 1/4 mile, and wagons and caravan towing, once per mile. It sounds very far fetched, but compared to some ideas that have been thought up, it would be a world beater.

Just a suggestion, but these are the sorts of things we should be looking at.

[John Hill]

Interesting ideas you have there Mr BogStandard.  I wonder though how those big flywheels on the hit-n-miss engine will effect the cornering ability of my next roadster!

[Darren]

I believe if that's what you're looking for then it may take you a while..
It's all down to physics or rather energy conversion. One measurement of a given power source has only one measurement in it to yield.

The only improvements can come from reducing losses.

Or am I missing your point here?

[zeusrekning]

I think the route of the model engineer will continue to evolve. And there will be many gruby old timers who wont like it. lol
Look at blacksmithing, many still tinker with it but its not what it once was. Machinery has finally gotten to a price where most people can afford to buy a small lathe and mill for the home shop. The desire to purse ,I believe, will not be there so much for the younger guys. This used to concern me some until I came across HMEM and madmodder. I am always amazed at you white collar guys who knew nothing of machining but decided to give it a go. I think this is the way it will be for a while. I started working in a machine shop at 16yo, that was only 11 years ago. Ive always enjoyed working on things and designing tools, toys and junk (mostly on my head and on the pc). And I hope the desire continues for me.
 
Ill try to focus a bit more I strayed off there.
What will happen. I think the younger crowd will not be coming into the hobby but that mechanical trait that is in most of us here will still be around. I believe it is still in us from the caveman days. I think you will see more and more 30-50 somethings enter the hobby and evolve it. I think you will see the home CNC hobby continue to grow as the equipment becomes more inexpensive. And we should see the 3D printers start becoming a reality for home machinist in the not so distant future. But beyond that I have no idea. Wouldn't it be cool if by the time Im in my 60's Madmodder had a section for molecular manufacturing? But in the end I think model engineering will continue to evolve and hopefully the internet will let us see this evolution. Some may like it some may not. But as long as we can all do and create as we please in our own shops, Ill be happy. And sites like this will be there for all who want to jump in. Just think of the kid in the future who may come across one of Bogs build logs and say "man thats cool" I want to learn how to do that.

Ohh clock making, thats where all my internet surfing has been focused at lately, Buggy to clock would be a cool shift.

Im sorry for rambling on, I was bored. LOL I usually type up these long pointless post then delete them, but Im going to click post now.

[Bernd]

Ah to be 27 again. Glad you clicked post. You've added a bit more to the thread.

I didn't see any rambling in there. I think you have a point there though. 3D printers, Mmmmmmmm. Building Bogs engine using molecular building blocks, interesting. Could it become the worlds smallest twin cylinder steam engine? I think you'd need to crush the water molecules down to make the steam go through the pipes. 

You never know what your words will stimulate in somebody elses mind.

Glad you posted.

Bernd

[dsquire]

Zeusrekning

I believe that you have some very good points in your post. Times are changing and we for a large part will change with it.

We need very few blacksmiths now but a few people still like to work at that craft now. Mostly they do it as a hobby and for relaxation. Now we are working with lathes and mills in our basements and garages as a hobby for relaxation. Our new standard of living has allowed us to buy these new custom made toys for the hobbyist. Now the big thing is that we want to convert them into robots so that we load them with material, turn them on and walk away. When we come back we expect the perfect part to be waiting for us.

Whats next? I don't know. We will probably be leaning more and more into electronics and robotics for all kinds of applications. It does not matter if it is a bridge accross the Pacific or a Highway to the Moon, an engineer will be involved. No matter what hapens there is always going to be a few that march to a different drummer. He will not be satisfied to watch something work, he will have to take it apart and study it then refine it and put it back together so that it runs better than ever. There gentleman, is your next Engineer.

cheers

Don

[NickG]

I think he is getting at thinking outside the box!

I don't think it'll be possible for people to do these sorts of blue sky things in their home workshops any time this century. Rapid prototyping machines exist but they're bloomin' expensive and I'd doubt if you could create a working model on one.

There are the exceptionally skilled people that make scale working models of ferrari's and things (there's a video somewhere on the net, the V12 engine sounds like a real ferrari and the guy said if you could drive it, it would drive like a real one) but lets face it, how many of us have the skills, time, machinery and what ever else to be able to do that?

Any machinery that is interesting these days is too complicated for us amateurs to model.

Nick

[Bernd]

There are the exceptionally skilled people that make scale working models of ferrari's and things (there's a video somewhere on the net, the V12 engine sounds like a real ferrari and the guy said if you could drive it, it would drive like a real one) but lets face it, how many of us have the skills, time, machinery and what ever else to be able to do that?

Nick

Here's the scoop on Pierre Scerri and his Ferrari

Bernd

[shred]

IME, the highest standards of classic "model engineering" seem to be making accurate scale models of, well, old stuff.   Everything from the industrial revolution up to when it revolted enough that it became largely too complex and uninteresting for most.  That's kind of Steam-through-early-Gas, and not much further.  Seems to have been that way for a while.   The "old stuff worthy of modelling" line doesn't advance as fast as the years do.

There's a large number of professional engineers that chose that career path because they like making things and probably spent hours taking things apart as children.  They don't get to do much of that for real at work anymore.  The ones that get a hankering to build things again tend to go create complicated programs or robots or, ten to one, gravitate to woodwork.  Around here that's a slightly more presentable hobby; after all you're making useful things, plus supplies and information abound.  Every so often one wants to play with metal and we can suck them in.

[flint]

I'll be the first to say that many of the old skills have been if not lost, nearly lost. But there is still a great deal of interest in the old ways. As long as we have programs like the one below we will have a new generation to carry on.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/08/12/sask-blacksmithing-ness-creek.html?ref=rss

I don't know about making an iron bed. It reminds me of the saying ...If you have a hammer everything looks like a nail!  But take note of the 13 y.o who is not afraid to get his hands dirty!

If you googlemap Ness Creek you will find it in the middle of a forest in Northern Saskatchewan Canada. People attended from hundreds of miles around.