The Breakroom > The Water Cooler

What will happen?

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rleete:

--- Quote from: bogstandard on August 31, 2009, 01:49:42 PM ---We seem to be just copying all the old designs, not really reinventing new ones.
--- End quote ---

I've been thinking on this.  I've made some unique designs, but I'm certainly not inventing anything.  After all, in spite of how unusual it may look, a wobbler is still a wobbler.  I've come up with my own spin on the appearance, but if it uses a slide valve, it's going to be pretty damn close to what has been made many thousands of times before.  Rather than a new design, it's more like super blinging of existing ones.

There are still people designing pneumatic cylinders and parts for companies such as Bimba.  The basic cylinder hasn't changed much in several centuries, but there are constant refinements in materials, methods of manufacture, mounting styles and such.  Put up against the vast array of cylinders in the world, there isn't a heck of a lot that someone from 200 years ago wouldn't recognise as a basic pneumatic actuator.

Should I publish my designs?  Probably.  But making drawings is work (it's what I get paid to do) and I'm lazy.  Anyone with some imagination should be able to come up with new ways of making interesting engines as well as I can.  And I'm no expert on the mathematics or technical aspects of steam engines, so I'll defer to those who've already done that.  If I finish anything, I'll post pics, and hope that it helps fire the imagination of someone else.  Maybe post some pics of the solid models (easier for me to make pretty pictures than finished engines), with the hope that inspires as well.

bogstandard:
No1,

Your first quote about computers is spot on.

If it wasn't for the internet, I think model engineering would be on it's downwards spiral. I didn't say home machining because people have workshops for a lot of reasons for the activities they do, restoring old cars, bikes etc.

Model engineering was really a word of mouth thing years ago, you saw an engine say at a local fayre or gathering and you asked how they got hold of it, and you were invited to come along to the next society meeting, or a workmate would tell you about what he got up to in the evenings and would ask you down for a looksee.

When I was a very small lad, way back in the middle of the last century (makes you sound like hundreds of years old), our neighbour passed away, and it wasn't until years later that I realised he was a model engineer. I then understood what the raised tracks that went around his garden were, and all the machinery and small locos that were being carried out of his big wooden shed. I never saw anything running, but now I realise that in those days, during the week you were in bed and fast asleep at 6pm, and at the weekends, as soon as it was light in the morning, you were out in the country all day with your mates. He was most probably making when I was asleep, and running when I wasn't there.

So basically, the internet has allowed model engineering come out from behind closed doors and show what we get up to, and so strike a spark into people who see what we do, and want to follow in our footsteps. That is why we should pass on as much info as we can, before the internet gets completely swamped with utter garbage and becomes unusable.

When you see the number of hits on youtube vids about things we have made, or the membership of model engineering based websites, it shows we really are in a very small and fragile minority, considering how many civilised people there are on our little rock.

Roger,

I understand exactly where you are coming from. When I made my slide valve engines that made up my 'book', I was working in my shop up to ten hours during the day and then 3 to 4 hours doing the writeup in the evening. That went on for two months, it wore me out.

It takes people a lot stronger willed than me to keep up that sort of regime, even doing it once a year. How Jan Ridders gets thru his workload, I have no idea.

I was not inferring that we should show everything we do, the people on here only see a little of what I get up to, but any new ideas could be shown, and let people experiment with it if they like the idea. Or even a slant on an old idea could come up with a few interesting posts.

You only have to look at what Darren is doing. He is feeding the world. Tomato soup made from cast iron. :lol:

He only has to get it tasting like tomatoes, and it will be ready for full scale production.

Just little things standing in the way of progress.

Bogs

Darren:
I have to admit if it wasn't for the internet I wouldn't have progressed very far, if at all.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have a workshop, but it would prob be full of very different tools and I'd still be struggling along.



I see the net as a double edge sword....


OTOH, my ex wanted new sparkplugs for her Scooby.....flash *%^$, anyway several garages turned her away as it's aparently not the easiest of jobs.

So my son did a bit of Googling and changed them for her......he's just turned 15yrs and has no trouble stripping bike engines down and putting them back together...

It must be in the genes....cos I didn't show him how....

sorveltaja:
Without internet, I'd be totally on my own, without knowing that there are people, that are open-minded even to strangest ideas.
I dare to say, that in this country the model engineering is still generally considered as 'humbug', not a man's hobby.

Usual questions are: what can you use it for? Can I ride it? Does it peel potatoes? and so on.

No use to tell, that it's the device that implements nothing more than beauty of mechanical parts working together.

RipSlider:
As far as "nothing new" is concerned, then, as has already been said, perhaps there isn't much left?

Steam has been worked on by a vast number of "the greats" for 150 years - how many very clever men can work on a single idea before your into diminishing returns? However, there are still refinements I guess - ME is running two brand new designs currently for steam. Or at least one and one modified version.

There are probably other area's where there still IS scope - a huge amount of scope- for new idea's. 2 stroke diesels. Pulse jets. small turbo-and super-charged systems. fuel economy. Quietness. etc etc etc. I think flash steam is in there as well.

I know I've said this before, but there doesn't seem a real incentive to do new design any more - as what new designs DO come out don't find an actual use. A new design for a vacuum engine is nice. A new beam engine is nice. A new 3 1/2" train is nice, but only "nice".

A new idea for a .61 engine which uses 25% less fuel, or produces 10% more power DOES have a use - to R/C aero, heli, car and boat guys. either of those two wins every race for a season. Put that design in ME and the shelves WILL empty. And a whole new generation will be buying lathes and mills and flooding these forums begging for assistance and advice. Make a working model showing you can reliably cool the air of an engine down by 10 degrees C without excessive moisture, and Ford have a $1m standing reward waiting for you.

I know such a design doesn't happen by magic - and I'm not in a position to preach as I know sod all about it - but I would put real money on the fact that if a new thread was opened up on this forum called "A better diesel engine" or "A fuel efficient 2-stroke engine" and everyone threw their ten-pence worth in, then some remarkable things - some remarkable idea's - would happen in days.

So maybe the question is: Is anyone actually asking for new designs? And if they are, is anyone listening?


On the other topic of "where's the interest going?" - the more general point - I think it's partly becuase model engineering is so hidden - how many 16 year old - fully internet savvy - kids in the average school do you think even suspect that there are multiple forums for discussing chopping up pieces of metal?

Also partly due to a lack of exposure - my old school can't use any of the machinery in the machine shops any more - health and safety - and my god-son's father was dragged into his school for a lecture because he  allowed his 11 year old son  to use a chisel over a weekend.


I guess, to balance the argument however, you also need to look at the other side. Perhaps ME is a declining hobby. Maybe less people are entering it. Maybe less designs are happening? It doesn't take my own pleasure away from it, so do I care? Should I care?

There was talk about the UK not needing the skills that we once did. And I guess that's true - a lot of the skills have moved to india, china etc. And a lot of them are entirely redundant. And that's very sad. but perhaps that's just the way things are? My uncle is a master blacksmith - won every award it's possible to win in the UK, and pretty much all of the US awards as well. But he's broke as hell, because there's just not that many horses to shoe or railings to make these days. And while it's sad, I'm not planning to swap my car for a lump of meat called Dobbin any time soon.


Steve

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