Author Topic: Playing with Blender For Artists (Bforartists) - Easier way to learn Blender?  (Read 5229 times)

Offline sorveltaja

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Generally, I have a habit of using only certain or needed parts/functions of different software/programs to get (or hoping to get) results that I'm after.

Blender seems to offer primarily mesh tools, so it probably isn't suitable for any precision object modeling. But how about its animation and simulation capabilities?

Few weeks ago, to get my feet wet I started with Bforartists, which is a 'hack' of Blender. It's still Blender, but has additional user interface elements like icons (and overall more colorful appearance) which may help to navigate and find certain functions easier, and to get a grasp of how the UI works.

 


I remember trying Blender several times in the past, but tossed it because its UI structure felt just too strange.

It's obviously for users who prefer to use keyboard shortcuts instead of clicking icons. I guess pros use it that way to accomplish things faster and more efficiently, but for newbies it may be too challenging at first.

At the moment, I'm playing with simple tutorials, hoping to learn basics of rigid body based mechanical animation with objects like this:

 

 
It appears that simulated objects must be mesh objects, so I'm trying out mesh modeling in Blender, and see how it goes.

It really doesn't have tools for drafting, although it's possible (but tedious) to make "cad-ish" 2D drawings from images. I find that in Blender, curves need to be converted to meshes for easier editing (vertices and edges instead of nurbs or bezier ones which have handles for more "organic" editing).

 
   


Some of the things that may seem odd for newcomers:   

- Blender and Bforartists seem to favor quite dark themes; if one prefers lighter color viewport background, it makes certain elements(like crosshair cursor and selection rectangle) very hard to distinguish, so it might take some fiddling to find suitable color.

- Lack of easily making/editing toolbars (well not really lack, if one knows python). But there's an option to add commands to 'quick favorites', which opens by pressing Q key. It's handy, and I'm starting to get used to it.

- Using snapping for moving, scaling or rotating objects is dependent of the view, and works more consistently if the view is aligned in X, Y or Z axis. It's also dependent on how close the target is zoomed; the closer the zoom, the finer the snap, and similarly coarser when zoomed out.

Things to consider:

- It's free

- It's available for Windows, Linux and Mac

- Lots of tutorials from beginner to advanced levels on Youtube   

- Also lots of free add-ons available

P.S. I wonder if there's way to show animated images or similar sized mp4 video snippets in posts? From what I've read on the forum, if memory serves, animated gifs aren't allowed for security reasons. As one possible option, I have free Proton account, and it has Proton Drive with 2 Gb storage. It allows encrypted link to files, but I have no idea how volatile it is. In other words, how long those links lasts. Another option would be to upload files to Youtube, which is also free, I suppose.

Besides those mentioned, any suggestions?

Offline vtsteam

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Wow nice work Sorveltaja! I also tried Blender many years ago, and also like you found it difficult to understand. So I never got any further. I stayed with 2D CAD and paper for quite awhile, occasionally trying out cheap 3D CADs, but never getting the hang of them, until finally Google SketchUp came out. That one I got, and have been using ever since. But my needs are simple. I still largely design and build by intuition, and scraps of paper, and sometimes SketchUp.

Anyway, very glad to see someone actually using Blender for our kind of projects. I do really like seeing the pictures, and the interface you are using.  :coffee:

As far as animations go, yes YouTube is a possibility. But in the past I have also used Vimeo to post here on the forum -- well not for a long while, and I think its upload interface has become more script loaded -- also I think Google has a hand in them, too. But it used to be non-commercial, unlike YouTube. Don't know if it still is.

I think I might have tried Dailymotion a couple times, and Metacafe, which no longer exists.

Keep showing us what you're doing in Blender -- I wish I understood it better.




I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline RussellT

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They look good.  I'd like to see the animations in action.

Like Steve, I liked Sketchup.  Then I got a 3D printer and found that Sketchup's meshes were often faulty and difficult to fix.

Blender has been recommended to me by a semi professional on that sort of stuff but I haven't got to grips with it - I don't do enough stuff and I'd be throwing away the effort I've made to learn some Freecad.

Russell
Common sense is unfortunately not as common as its name suggests.

Offline sorveltaja

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I didn't even remember having Youtube account, but that's what I'll use for animations.

Anyways, to get back to the topic, here's an example of how rigid bodies (in this case, gears) can be made to react with each other:



Offline vtsteam

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Nice work!  :beer:

Can I ask, in your piston drawing earlier, what are the triangular sections under the crown?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline sorveltaja

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Nice work!  :beer:

Can I ask, in your piston drawing earlier, what are the triangular sections under the crown?

At first I thought they are for cooling, but since when pistons had such? It would be interesting to know what kind of engine that kind of piston belongs to. But yeah, it's just random image I found on the net.

Offline awemawson

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Some Land Rover engines have  jets of oil played on the under side of the piston crown for cooling as I imagine do many other engines












Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline sorveltaja

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Some Land Rover engines have  jets of oil played on the under side of the piston crown for cooling as I imagine do many other engines

Thanks for the info :beer:. I don't remember seeing that kind of cooling solution. But here we go, my knowledge about engines is limited to small, model ones.

What comes to mechanical animations, like gear trains, there seems to be several ways to achieve desired results. One that I'm particularly interested, is using previously mentioned rigid bodies where several objects react to other ones in "physical" way. It may sound like I know what I'm doing, but it's trial and error process. Although there are, no doubt, very sophisticated ways to achieve expected outcome, those are for advanced users; I just prefer the 'hands on' approach instead.

It's sort of like playing with lego blocks. Animated and/or simulated objects can be modified to affect the result, like in this video, which uses same objects that were in previous video, with added elements. I didn't expect such a result, but it's actually going to the direction I'm after:

 

In the end, again some critique (not to blame by any means) about Blender:

- Its user manual has almost 6000 (yes, thousands) pages, but it's more like a reference, as there doesn't seem to be instructions that newcomer could easily follow (that's probably why Youtube has zillions of tutorials).

- Some functions (like object's properties, and how it shows in the viewport) are scattered around, and usually it takes search on the net to find out where, and which terms to look for.

- Preferences menu (especially 3D viewport one) is like wild jungle, having hundreds of options to adjust UI colors, which is actually very good idea, but to find the element one wishes to adjust is not necessarily that easy.

In the end, Blender might be a great tool to just play with.

Offline vtsteam

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I can see the attraction. about 15 years ago I first discovered the game Crayon Physics, which I thought was brilliant. It was one of the first things I tried to get workable in WINE on Puppy Linux.

The object and movement interactions are the fascinating part like Blender and 3D CADs, but the graphics are Grammar school level -- which I actually love. I like the fact that you draw the objects in real time -- talk about a simplified user interface!
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline sorveltaja

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Previously I haven't done much video editing, except simple stuff back in the days in Virtualdub. I was looking for ways to make a video, that has more than one videos in it. No need to look any further - Blender has its own video editor:

 

 
On the upper left side is the folder with video files. On the bottom are the channels, where video files can be dragged. In the upper middle window videos can be scaled and moved, using same shortcuts (G for moving, S for scaling) as with the objects in 3D window. Output is rendered to .mkv video format, which is then ready to be uploaded to Youtube:



What comes to 3D rendering, from newcomer's perspective, there's an option to use OpenGL preview renderer to render the output of animation without any scene setup(lighting, cameras, object materials/textures etc). It basically takes series of screenshots of the viewport, therefore being very fast.

For some reason, its output (be it single image or video) has quite dim or faded colors, when actual 3D viewport is compared to rendered image. Maybe it's about some settings that I haven't yet found:

 
 

Offline vtsteam

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Looks like it's a contrast reduction, instead of dimming. Notice the blue background has lower saturation, typical of lowering a contrast control.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline BillTodd

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I'm  impressed by your progress.  After years if using solid works , I  found  blender incomprehensible.
Bill

Offline sorveltaja

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This is partly off-topic about mechanical contraption, that I once tried to build to find out how it works, by using 3D printed parts. But in practice, if memory serves, there was way too much accumulated friction to achieve usable, or actually enjoyable result to tinker with.

There are many variations, and from what I've read, this is a Wilson type preselector gearbox. It also has different flavors; some have more gears than others:

 

 
   

So, after watching few more tutorials, this is an attempt to simulate associated parts in Blender. So far, I think I've managed to figure out how to engage gears 1, 2 and 3:



Wheel with two holes represents the output, while small, animated cube imitates gear shifting brakes.

What comes to gears in the above animation, no, I didn't model them in Blender. I guess it can be done, but some tools are just pain in the butt to work with. Instead, they were imported from a project I did in Rhinoceros. Additional objects, like linkages between gears were done in Blender, though.


Offline Brass_Machine

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Very cool. I tried blender and had no luck. I do use Alibre almost weekly though.
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline sorveltaja

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This is again sort of an off-topic one.

Blender 2.92 is the last version that works in Win 7. It has far fewer functions, and it doesn't seem to be as stable as the newest versions.

That's why I've had to use Win10. But the more I use W10, the more I want to avoid using it.

One option that's left, was to install Linux. As I'm not too much into learning it (Linux) at the moment, I tested several distros in VM, to see which one has most easily configurable (or "windowsy") settings.

One that stood out was Pop OS. It has a GUI that imitates W11, having options to customize it a bit more easily available(although some settings require some serious searching). Plus it supports browsers like Brave, Opera, and Waterfox, which I've constantly used in Windows.

It also has a version that has Nvidia drivers included, and that's what I'm using.

It might not be the best of the best option, but so far, after few days of using it, Blender has worked without problems (as well as the browsers mentioned), and it feels that it could be good enough alternative to W10: 

 


What comes to running Blender on Linux in VM, only a lot older version of Blender worked; newest one installed just fine, but gave an error message and simply refused to run.

I guess one has to have a PC with quite beefy specs, and to know how to configure hardware for VM for that kind of CPU-heavy tasks.

So, what a better excuse to utilize a moped class PC, than to install software on bare metal instead?

 

Offline vtsteam

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This is great!  :proj:

I do something similar in reverse, sorveltaja. But my main OS is Linux. My choices are Puppy Linux running ten year old Google SketchUp as a CAD on either WINE (native Win substitution, not a VM) or AQEMU (a VM running Win 7).

Under AQEMU I get near native OS speeds using the KVM accelerator. I do like using WINE better when I can because then Windows programs are running natively within Linux. I'm not jumping back and forth into a VM from Linux. But my latest laptop is so new that SketchUp in WINE has a graphics bug that means I need to go the VM route. My older computers ran WINE/SketchUP seamlessly.

It sounds like you will be running Linux in a VM on Win10, and then a Linux version of Blender? Or are you actually installing Linux on your computer as the main OS?

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Sounds like you've found a Linux distro you like. But I can't help also making a suggestion of Puppy Linux, and specifically (for newish computers) a version of it called F96-CE.

One interesting thing about Puppy is that you can install the whole operating system as a simple directory within your main OS. You you can dual boot at startup into either your original OS or Puppy. You do not have to reformat your hard drive for Puppy Linux, unlike most Linuxs. This is called a "Frugal" install in Puppy lingo. And in fact it's the preferred method of installation.

In fact, that directory doesn't have to even reside on the main hard drive. It can be on a thumb drive. That gives you a completely portable operating system that can be plugged into another computer. And the speed of the OS isn't hampered by the speed of the thumb drive, because at boot time the OS is copied into RAM, and then operates from there. It's extremely compact. Of course you can add whatever browser or application like Blender you want to that base OS.

Anyway, I like the OS. I've been using it for nearly 20 years.

(Later... out of curiosity I just looked up Blender on the Puppy Linux forum and found a portable app (which is a piece of cake to install) set up with an older version of Blender 3.1. So I tried it, and here's the initial screen:

 


(pps.. I tried Waterfox also from the original website, but it crashed when trying Youtube. I see there's a Waterfox development note on that bug...)
« Last Edit: Today at 12:17:55 PM by vtsteam »
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline sorveltaja

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It sounds like you will be running Linux in a VM on Win10, and then a Linux version of Blender? Or are you actually installing Linux on your computer as the main OS?

W7 has still been my daily driver, as it has programs like Rhinoceros and a bunch of other smaller tools installed. W10 installation is on another ssd disk, mainly for testing/using software that doesn't support W7.

I had yet another ssd lying around, and decided to dedicate it for Pop OS. At the same time, I've looked for Linux alternatives for those that I used in Windows. Programs like browsers mentioned, e-mail(Thunderbird), VLC, and Wings 3D are already cross-platform ones.

But for image editors, Paint Shop Pro 8 is by far my favorite tool; somehow I managed to install and get it to work in Wine. It has one limitation, though: images on clipboard can't be pasted to it, perhaps because it is "sandbox", or isolated process inside Wine. So I installed Gimp where screenshots can be saved, and then opened in Psp.

Yeah, I also tested Puppy in VM(don't remember which flavor), and noticed it had older version of Blender available. Maybe different versions of software can be selected and installed using command line?

Anyway, I've used Puppy from usb stick in the past for things like looking what kind of hidden files W10 partitions have, or simply formatting usb sticks, if it hasn't worked in Windows.

In the end, I never thought of seeing a day when I'd prefer to have Linux as a companion OS with Windows :beer:.

Offline vtsteam

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Pretty sure I could get late versions of Blender going in Puppy with a little look tonight. There just wasn't the call for it, probably before. I can dual boot on all my Puppy computers into Win 7, since there were many useful oddball programs for that version, and it was relatively tame re. invasiveness. I also have it in a QEMU VM, as I mentioned before. I'll take a look at late Blender this evening.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg