Author Topic: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine  (Read 45890 times)

Offline vtsteam

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The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« on: February 22, 2025, 02:39:40 PM »
 


Eighteen years ago for my father's 83rd birthday, I built a hot air engine using my own aluminum castings, skate ball bearings, a graphite piston, and many borrowings from my scrap pile. It was a very rushed 2 week project, since I had little idea of the complexities I was getting myself into. I worked long into the nights. Nevertheless I finished the little engine the night before leaving to see him, and got the bare engine to run, rather impressively, by heating the displacer cylinder over the kitchen stove. I quickly added a channel Iron base, a firebox out of square tube, and a smokestack out of a brass sink drainpipe. The firebox even had a door.


 



When visiting him a few states away, I brought a small can of Sterno as a heat source, and this fit into the firebox, and luckily was enough to power the engine as well, running steadily. All was well!

Because we had to return home the next day, I took some pictures of the engine on a rather fancy table. The engine was named "No. 83" in honor of my father's birthday. Those photos were all I had of the engine for many years, and I really regretted I didn't have more time to run it, improve it, and try out the many ideas I had as experiments. In fact the original intention was to run it with wood as a fuel, and the firebox and stack were built with that in mind. But that never happened.

 


Not to go into too many personal details but my father later had a bad fall, was hospitalized and sedated for a week, lapsed into partial dementia, and my brother, an heroin addict and ex-con, took over his life. My father passed away, and my brother took everything, including the little engine. That was the end of it, so I thought.

My nephew, a kind person, recently returned the engine to me after his father, my brother, had also passed. It had been 18 years. My brother had pronounced my engine non-workable after trying and failing to run it once for my father. He had no concept of what a hot air engine really is or how it works. After my father died, my brother had left No. 83 in the corner of a garage on the bare concrete to rust.

The .008" walled displacer cylinder had been overheated and ruptured. The fire door was missing. No. 83 was in sad shape.

 


 







« Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 04:05:48 PM by vtsteam »
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2025, 03:43:55 PM »
Of course, we're not going to leave it that way......
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline tom osselton

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2025, 03:49:40 PM »
Great story it will be nice to see it going again.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2025, 04:00:30 PM »
Hi Tom!  :wave: Done any casting lately?

I haven't, a lot my stuff is under tons of snow here which came off the open sided casting shed roof on top of the two feet we already had. A lot of it had drifted underneath. I just shoveled a lot of it out today. Hoping to cast something when this last bunch of ice and snow clears up more.

re. No 83: Well as a start, I cleaned the outer engine with mostly just soap and hot water and a 3M Scotchbrite pad. That felt a lot better!



Then I took apart the linkages, cleaned them and put them back together. No telling whether it will run again without replacing some of those parts. But for the moment I think I'll try with what I have.

 
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2025, 04:19:27 PM »
I had a piece of stainless steel tubing a friend had given me long ago -- I think it was from a sailboat stanchion. Anyway it measured on the OD the same as the ruined displacer cylinder. Probably the same piece of material I used for that one. I just don't remember. So it will be a natural fit into the engine -- I have about a foot and a half of that stuff left. So I cut off a piece the right length, and cleaned up the ends in the lathe, and then silver soldered another thin piece of stainless steel sheet to the outer end. Then I chucked it back in the lathe and bored it out to what the old displacer cylinder had been.

 


This is quite a bit thicker walled than the old one was. It's .047" while the older cylinder had a wall thickness of only .008" at the hot end! (The cold end was full thickness, also ~.047", so the mount in the massive bulkhead/heat sink will be the same).

Turning the hot end down that thin was very tedious. Eighteen years ago I had turned it between centers using tiny cuts. The cylinder had been jam-mounted onto a carefully turned oak dowel arbor, to give it support.

I'm anxious to see if the engine works, so I'm just going to try it as-is. I can always turn it down in thickness in future. I hope it will at least run okay without the thinning, just not at maximum efficiency. Or maybe it won't run at all, for this or other reasons. We'll see.....
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2025, 05:03:23 PM »
Well first evidence of clueless tampering in its past history. There are two allen screws (grub screws) holding the old displacer cylinder into the massive vertical aluminum bulkhead. They are situated 90 degrees apart. One comes in from the bottom of the bulkhead, and one comes in from the side. Well one of those screws was missing, and the other one seemed stuck (was it cross threaded?!)  :hammer:

Design note: I had originally hoped to mount the cylinder as a press fit into that bulkhead, but had bored it .002" oversize by mistake. I had wanted good heat transfer into the aluminum as a cooler hence the press fit. The remedy, since time was so short on this original birthday present project, was to immobilize the cylinder with the allen screws, after applying electronic heat sink compound to the bore to allow good heat transfer.)

Anyway, what to do about the stuck screw deep in the bulkhead? Well since the old cyinder was defunct anyway, I was able to pull it out, with some scratches -- but it was destined for the bin anyway. Luckily with the cylinder out, I was finally able to remove the stuck screw. Phew!  :med:

But when I tried to slide the new cylinder in place, It wouldn't go. What the heck? They were the same exact OD.

After taking a careful look at the bore, I notice what looked like the tip of the same grub screw I had removed, still in place. Another one? Well yes, mystery solved!  :smart:

I unscrewed that one, and could finally slide the new cylinder in place. Two screws had been put into the same hole. That explained the missing one from the other location 90 degrees away. Somebody had had the engine apart and then, uhhhhh... screwed it up. That would also have slightly changed the cylinder location from when originally tested. And possibly the angular alignment. It would also have allowed a little play, which is why two 90 degrees apart were originally intended. And jamming two on top of each other can make the top one hard to extract.

Okay, click, I'm starting to get a picture of events.....
« Last Edit: February 24, 2025, 05:41:59 PM by vtsteam »
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2025, 12:11:24 PM »
I went to town this morning and bought a can of Sterno. Not so easy to find any more. I guess not many people use chafing dishes. This was a wider can than what I had remembered using before, not really fitting all the way into the firebox. But with no door anyway, it was a moot point.

Time to try to get the engine going. I left it to heat for a minute or so and gave then gave flywheel a flip. It didn't spin on its own, maybe four grudging turns to stop no matter how hard I tried.

Encouragingly, flipping the flywheel backwards had much higher resistance and went to an immediate stop, which to me meant at least I had a hot air engine. Flipping backwards turns a Stirling into a heat pump, and that actually takes work, rather than producing it. The difference is a sign that there is potential.

I then tried a Mapp torch -- but being careful not to to melt the end cap silver braze (which is hard - 70% silver). The engine turned over when flipped and I'd say it "ran" but really haltingly. I had to keep waving the torch on it as it tried to stop. It's not the way I remember it, and I don't want to damage it by continuing. At least I could see it go on its own, so it is a hot air engine. Of sorts.

What's wrong?

I know it was a better runner than that. It's time to take the whole engine apart and measure everything. Is there wear? Is there corrosion? Something is definitely wrong.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2025, 12:42:12 PM »
I've done some measurements of the cylinders and components, and calculated the swept volumes and free space. By my calculations, this engine ought to have a 1.5 to 1 compression ratio. I'm definitely not feeling that when spinning the flywheel. I hardly feel anything besides friction.

That's also an issue. This engine should be free spinning other than the compression resistance. It has twin ball bearing races on the crankshaft, and they are ABEC 7 rated skate bearings. The displacer is not contacting the walls of the displacer cylinder, and its polished pushrod is riding in a brass guide bushing that is still a close fit.

It's true that the crank linkages simply use 0.125" steel pins riding directly in holes in the aluminum connecting rods. But again the fit is still good, and their friction is tiny, and it's the same setup I had when it first ran 18 years ago. It's not enough to stop an engine.

Where I'm feeling a lot of friction is in the power piston and cylinder. Now this shouldn't be. That piston is graphite, and I remember lapping the brass cylinder it rides in with a lead lap and fine abrasive for probably an hour, trying to get a perfect fit. Why is it riding so badly now. And where is the compression?

The cylinder and piston both look good.... are they that far off now?

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2025, 01:24:28 PM »
Piston and cylinder apart.

 


The flywheel spins VERY freely for more than a minute by itself. The displacer slides easily in its bushing. But the graphite piston and cylinder do not.

(Later):

Somebody oiled the piston!  :wack: It's not meant to be oiled. That completely defeats the purpose of a graphite piston!

I was wondering what kind of oil they used. Maybe even kitchen vegetable oil, heaven forbid....  so I smelled the piston. It must have been "3-in-1" oil -- I remember that smell so well from when I was a kid and we were working on our bikes. Well I still have an old bottle of it. So distinctive.

I guess the friction problem was 18 year old oil sludge absorbed into the graphite of the piston. So I just washed the piston with dish detergent in hot water.  And the brass cylinder as well. And now they are VERY free running together. Plus, the compression is back.

I can locate the piston and the little aluminum connecting rod in the cylinder held vertical and they fall right through under their own weight -- which is tiny. But if I put my thumb over the end, the piston stays suspended indefinitely because of compression, until I remove my thumb.

That's a big relief. I thought I might have to make a new piston.



I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline tom osselton

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2025, 02:59:48 PM »
I haven’t been doing much of anything lately besides watching marketplace for tools and such other than that I have to get off my butt and make some patterns for casting.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2025, 03:29:43 PM »
Hey Tom!  :beer: Any particular project in mind?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2025, 11:02:51 AM »
 Finally, No 83 runs again. :ddb:

 


And quite strongly, too. I've got to find my tachometer and see what it's doing.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2025, 01:42:09 PM »
Excellent save there Steve, well done !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2025, 02:47:39 PM »
Thanks kindly, Andrew!  :beer: Any new projects on the horizon for you?  :coffee:

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2025, 02:58:00 PM »
Found the optical tach. Had to charge some penlight batteries for it, but it's working.

So, 800 RPM on No. 83, which is gratifying to see. It 's an impressive running engine. That flywheel is pretty massive, and it's fun watching it slowly come up to speed and then maintain that rate. It does seem to take nearly 5 minutes of heating (using sterno) before it will start, which seems kind of long. I'm not sure why it shouldn't start sooner. Maybe the thicker wall of the new displacer cylinder. I think I'll make another one.

Well anyway, she's running well now and I'm happy! All these years I wondered about it  :scratch:

I keep running it, then stopping for an hour or two, then starting it up again just to see it go. It's just fun!

Top RPM is very consistent at about 800 each time.

 
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2025, 03:34:14 PM »
What a fantastic read. Good job Steve!
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2025, 07:27:55 PM »
Thanks Eric!  :beer: How has the winter been treating you this year? Nasty here!

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2025, 08:23:17 PM »
Funny thing. I uhh was moving the engine while it was running tonight, and I felt a little bug or ant under my thumb. I let go fast of course, and was kind of shocked there could be an insect anywhere this time of year in Vermont, and particularly on a running engine!

Well, it wasn't a bug after all. It was the sensation of suction and compression 13 times a second coming from a tiny grub screw hole in the side of the bulkhead that my thumb was gripping. In other words, it was a leak!

Oh, man, of course the makeshift of fastening the displacer cylinder with those screws hadn't solved the problem of the (2 thou) oversized hole the cylinder was sitting in! Dumb!  :bang: Pressure was escaping around that cylinder, and then out the grub screw hole.

And yet the engine has been running. It's amazing that the power pulses from just heating and cooling air 800 times a minute in a 1" diameter cylinder is so great that it can get around a 1 thou mounting gap, then around the screw threads of a bottomed out grub screw, and yet make itself felt that strongly. Hot air engines are continually surpising. I mean it's amazing they can run as fast as they do based on what's happening internally.

Okay well what to do about the leak? Hmmmm. Well wait a minute, there was a paper "head" gasket (tail gasket?) which should have sealed  the rim of the cylinder, anyway, right? So where is it coming from?



« Last Edit: February 26, 2025, 09:35:51 PM by vtsteam »
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2025, 10:27:38 AM »
Thanks Eric!  :beer: How has the winter been treating you this year? Nasty here!

Has been insane.
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2025, 12:16:24 PM »
Eric, last snowstorm (not the one last night) took me 6-1/2 hours to plow the driveway with the '51 John Deer M. Normally it takes an hour, or hour and a half in a heavy storm. The stuff that came down was like micro ball bearings, it just compacted and slid under the plow, springing back up after it. And there was nowhere to push it, and the winds, and sub zero temps (Fahrenheit). What a cluster! Haven't seen it that bad in 25 years here!

Well, back to the matter at hand -- which keeps us from going cabin crazy  :lol: um, oh yeah the leak....

It was the gasket. I made a new one out of brown paper grocery bag material (yes, I still have a few, just for that purpose). Reassembling the engine, No 83 is now consistently doing 1200 RPM, an improvement of 400 RPM. It's a lot more impressive. Like starting to seem a little scary, since it's unbalanced.

 


Kind of curious how far I can take this engine. I can think of a few things I'd like to test out. And since the components are easy to swap out (ie. NOT pressed fitted) and it's a reasonable scale (~1 bore power and displacer) it's simple to make alterations. Doesn't take a lot of material.

I had intended (for a couple years now) to make a much larger experimental hot air engine -- I have stainless tubing in both 2-1/2" and 4" dia. sizes, and a lot of other stuff specifically purchased for that.

But I'm thinking changes on that scale are more difficult and expensive to make. I can experiment with configurations on this little one much more easily, and then apply that to the design of the larger one.

So No. 83 might have an interesting future as a test bed. We're not done yet......
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2025, 05:44:26 PM »
I made up a new displacer cylinder this afternoon, same bore but with sides at the hot end thinned from .047" to .014" (1.2 to 0.36 mm).

The older recent cylinder is shown next to it.

 
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2025, 07:23:17 PM »
New displacer cylinder: 1400 RPM!

Linkages a blur.

 


I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2025, 09:01:53 PM »
Today I decided to sleeve the existing oversized displacer cylinder hole in the bulkhead. I made a decision to change the cylinder mount method. Instead of press fitting the cylinder in place (or holding it with grub screws in an oversized hole), I'm going to mount it with a flange. This will allow easier replacement when experimenting. It will also allow easier alignment of the bore, and it will give better cooling at the cold end.  Part of the working bore will now be in the aluminum bulkhead, rather than inside a stainless steel section situated in the bulkhead.

To do all this I need to make a plug sleeve out of aluminum, and press that into the bulkhead. Here's the start:

 
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2025, 09:05:44 PM »
Drilling out the plug:

 
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2025, 09:09:17 PM »
Pressed into the bulkhead:

 
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg