Gallery, Projects and General > How do I??
Insert Madness.....Help Please!
vintageandclassicrepairs:
Hi
I read that insert as having a 9mm side length, 2mm thick with 0.2mm corner radius ?
John
awemawson:
Thickness, and cutting height aren't necessarily the same. This got me confused when I had inserts from some random source that varied slightly from the one I was trying to match.
I was just measuring thickness with a vernier where the central hole was, but when I started measuring thickness at the actual cutting edge (they had a pronounced chip breaker groove) it all started to make sense!
vtsteam:
--- Quote from: vintageandclassicrepairs on February 15, 2022, 04:27:14 PM ---Hi
I read that insert as having a 9mm side length, 2mm thick with 0.2mm corner radius ?
John
--- End quote ---
Interesting John. I guess that is maybe how they approximate it in the name???
I found one mfr. dwg of a TCMT090204 and it's got a 9.60mm projected side length, it's 2.38mm thick, and has a 0.2mm corner radius.
And the one I'm trying to replace measures 8.92mm side length, 2.54mm thick, don't know corner radius. I guess the side length is close to 9 if you allow for the radius.
This site is the one that really confused me. Maybe there's a couple different ways of naming these things:
https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/understanding-identification-system-indexable-inserts
especially:
--- Quote ---5. Size
The fifth position is a significant one- or two-digit number indicating the size of the inscribed circle (I.C.) for all inserts having a true I.C. such as Round, Square, Triangle, Trigon, Pentagon, Hexagon, Octagon, and Diamond. This position designates the number of eighths of an inch in the nominal size of the I.C. It will be a one-digit number when the number of eighths of an inch in the I.C. is a whole number: 1 – 1 ⁄ 8"; 2 – 1 ⁄ 4"; 3 – 3 ⁄ 8"; 4 – 1 ⁄ 2"; 5 – 5 ⁄ 8"; 6 – 3 ⁄ 4"; 7 – 7 ⁄ 8";
8 – 1"; 10 – 1-1 ⁄ 4".
It will be a two-digit number carried to one decimal place when it is not a whole number: 1.2 – 5 ⁄ 32"; 1.5 – 3 ⁄ 16"; 1.8 – 7 ⁄ 32"; 2.5 – 5 ⁄ 16".
--- End quote ---
and:
--- Quote ---6. Thickness
The sixth position is a significant one- or two-digit number indicating the number of sixteenths of an inch in the thickness of the insert. It is a one-digit number when the number of sixteenths of an inch in the thickness is a whole number: 1 – 1 ⁄ 16"; 2 – 1 ⁄ 8"; 3 – 3 ⁄ 16"; 4 – 1 ⁄ 4"; 5 – 5 ⁄ 16"; 6 – 3 ⁄ 8"; 7 – 7 ⁄ 16"; 8 – 1 ⁄ 2"; 9 – 9 ⁄ 16"; 10 – 5 ⁄ 8".
It is a two-digit number carried to one decimal place when it is not a whole number: 1.2 – 5 ⁄ 64"; 1.5 – 3 ⁄ 32"; 2.5 – 5 ⁄ 32"; 3.5 – 7 ⁄ 32".
--- End quote ---
:loco:
vtsteam:
Thanks Andrew and John R,
Well, new inserts sent for.
I was thinking, since I have 3 sets (30) of the wrong, slightly larger, inserts, maybe I ought to use them to make my own insert tools to fit. They are 60 degree triangle, so I guess threading, and boring bars are possible, besides some 3/8" sq. lathe tools -- a set of which I don't have. So I checked the screw size, and it's an M2.5. Then I sent for 50 M2.5 insert screws with Torx screwdriver ($6.99) on Ebay, and a M2.5 x 0.45 tap and die set for12 bucks. Could be a lemonade from lemons situation.
PekkaNF:
Mostly OT:
I have been trough this....Went from brazed tips to HSS, to cheap indian 7 piece insert tool set, that had four different inserts. Before I found out that the boring bar, threading tool and groving tool was no good, I kept ordering the "original" indian inserts that shater when they touch steel. Britle at any speed. I still use two holders, because luckily they had standard 9 mm nominal ISO CCMT pockets. First step to success was to ditch useless holders (noname proprietary inserts or pocket was rough and would stress even a god insert). Then I ordered some swiss inserts and they actually worked as promised. Not cheap at 3-5 EUR apiece (local industrial toolshop has discount once a year, I buy a box once a year).
I got that pissed of cheap holders that I ordered set of Maier boring bars and they actually worked really well. They also had a coolant hole and I used spray can plastic "sleeve" to spray canned coolant trough boring bars when cutting blind holes or extra difficult materials.
https://maier-tools.de/epages/Maiertools-Shop.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Maiertools-Shop/Categories/Drehen/WendeplattenDrehwerkzeuge/Bohrstangen/Positiv__Bohrstangen/Form_C/SCLC
There are some xtra complications on boring bars and apropriate inserts, but I got the bars that use standard ISO CCMT06 inserts, but on a funny angle, you need fairly positive insert.
I also ordered a nice small external CCMT turning holder, but while it is nice, I found out that many mid priced chinese/taiwanese around 20-30€/piece work almost as good.
https://maier-tools.de/epages/Maiertools-Shop.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Maiertools-Shop/Categories/Drehen/WendeplattenDrehwerkzeuge/Aussenhalter/Positiv__Aussenhalter
I was considering triangular inserts, because they have one extra corner (tempting for economy) but the good holders were taiwanese 70€ apiece and due to geometry I would have needed more holders and more different type inserts....I ended up CCMT06 (and CCMT09 because few old cheap holders I had bought) for general use. I augemented that much later with SSSCR 1212 F09 holders for roughing and camfering. That isert has four corners....not really sure if that is strictly necessary, but they work good and have more robust edge than CCMT but way less flexible. I have been breaking these expensive inserts too (stupid really, 0,4 mm r is minumun for general use and 0,8 mm r for roughing) but generally the expensive inserts really outlive the cheap ones to the extent, that after the initial down payment they have come more economical and stress free.
For grooving, threading and such I bough some second hand Secos, but really hard to find right inserts for them. Sort of white elephant. Sometimes I fondle them, but use very seldomly. I have some rare inserts for them and they can be modified to suit some extra awkward work if the need arise.
I haven been ordering infequently some holders and inserts from Mesa tools:
https://www.mesatool.com/product-page/1-2-thread-grooving-tool-id-od
Those are great. One holder and you can assemble insert on three different postions. They are actually very clever, because they offer flexibility for left/right hand external grooving and left/right had internal groving plus you can use make rounded edges or O-ring grooves. The inserts are not top quality, but perfectly adequate for me. All hardware is standard and Jim always answered my questions. I can recomed them. The tool holder is sort of simple and you wonder if at 40 USD is really that good, but made by a small company in western country and it just works without any waff. Well worth it.
There is a learnig curve on insert tooling and use. Pretty opposite of HSS, but no grinding (necessary/usually) and no cooling (usually) and flat out rpm until you get least blue or violet swarf out of it.
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