Author Topic: mess  (Read 1195 times)

Offline shipto

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mess
« on: December 28, 2021, 10:51:25 AM »
During my downtime I have been trying to organise my shed a bit and I am amazed at the amount of stuff that collects around unused tools, for example I had a couple of previous projects in the corner (a forging hammer and a surface grinder which never really gave good results) and slowly over time these have been buried by so much stuff much of it useless. Anyway I have dismantled the hammer and the grinder and put some new shelving up to store some of the tooling that was being stored on the floor.
I am a little happier with the state of the shed now but need to book a scrapman now to collect the remains and make many trips to the tip.
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
https://myshedblog.wordpress.com/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2022, 04:37:00 PM »
Dwayne, I have exactly the same problem.   :bang:  All summer long stuff gets piled up in the tiny (6'x8') shop on top of whatever is there already, mainly for auto and tractor repairs, chores, and garden and house needs. Then, it seems like every December, I get the urge to do metal shop work again. This urge came back again last month.

So the last couple weeks I've started in on a shop cleanup campaign again. I first unearthed the lathe, and cleaned it. Then moved everything I could from one workbench top to the other. I sanded and wiped down the cleared top, then painted it with gloss gray enamel.

I pulled the dirt encrusted and stained cherry handles off all twelve workbench drawers, sanded them down, and applied a clear finish. I painted all the drawer fronts gray while the handles were off.

I built a new shelf under one of the benches, and put all of my power tools and the welder and plasma torch there in two sections. (I have yet to try the plasma torch, btw, even though I've owned it a year!)

I haven't yet cleared off and painted the second bench top but that will wait until the paint is a little harder on the first one. Paint dries slowly in winter!

I also turned my attention to my foundry furnaces outside. I opened them up to see what state they were in. Luckily I had covered them well enough for moisture not to get in.

The former oil fired iron melting furnace was just as I left it a year ago, with a new baked outer lining of homemade refractory. The intent last year was to line that outer lining an inner lining of 2" of ceramic fiber blanket, and then coat that blanket with a refractory commercial coating, ala Ironman's furnaces. I have the supplies on hand (ordered a year ago). But today it's too cold to start the re-lining. I'm pretty sure sodium silicate won't take well to 20F temps when trying to adhere the liner to the shell..... not to mention applying the very expensive ceramic blanket coating.

But I did remove the steel furnace lid to clean that up.  I could bring that inside the shop to keep it warm when it's ready to line. However that lid is just a 4" deep steel ring, and it needs a cap disk of steel welded on before lining. Maybe I will get to use my new plasma cutter on some scrap sheet metal to cut that disk. Or maybe I'll just cut it out with the angle grinder!

The smaller propane foundry had some lining deterioration, but that lining of plaster of Paris and sand is going on 3 years old. Basically the inner 1/2: or so is showing extensive heat cracking, with some crumbled areas. But beneath that, the other 1-1/2" of lining thickness is intact. It might be possible to repour the outer 1/2" with some poP and sand mix. But that will probably not be a priority for the present, as I want to get the iron furnace working first.

Anyway, I'm making some gratifying progress on what was a disheartening mess a month ago. It is starting to feel good to be in the shop again, like it's actually a metal shop instead of a jumbled storage shed. I really hope to build an engine this winter :dremel:  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline krv3000

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Re: mess
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2022, 06:55:57 PM »
I  give in trying to sort mine out all I seem to do is move one lot of stuff in one place only to fill the space that I have just cleaned up with more stuff 

Offline AdeV

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Re: mess
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2022, 02:28:13 AM »
But I did remove the steel furnace lid to clean that up.  I could bring that inside the shop to keep it warm when it's ready to line. However that lid is just a 4" deep steel ring, and it needs a cap disk of steel welded on before lining. Maybe I will get to use my new plasma cutter on some scrap sheet metal to cut that disk. Or maybe I'll just cut it out with the angle grinder!

Yes - the Plasma cutter is perfect for cutting disks.... you'll want a piece of flat bar (maybe the same one you made your socket/plug coverter from  :lol:) as long as the radius of the disk you need plus a couple of inches. Drill a hole in one end large enough to take the cutting torch end, allowing for maybe 1mm or 1/16" slop, so it rotates easily in the hole. At the other end, drill a small hole, say 6mm or 1/4". In your scrap piece, drill a similar hole in the centre of the disk. Add a nut & bolt to hold the two parts together, but loosely. Now stick the plasma torch head in the big hole, fire it up, and as it cuts through, simply make your circle!

It took longer to write that ^^ than it'll take to make the parts & cut the disk, trust me.
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2022, 04:35:21 PM »
Thanks Ade, I will make one of those for sure.  :dremel:

For this furnace cover, I think I'm going to just lay the ring on the sheet metal and run the torch against it around the outside as a guide. It's not perfectly round, and this will probably fit better.

But yes I will make a compass like you say.  :thumbup:  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2022, 04:42:44 PM »
Ade, I read that some fancy adjustable commercial ones have a center pivot in a magnet.

Seems like a doable mini-project.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline shipto

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Re: mess
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2022, 05:52:27 PM »
So glad its not just me  :lol: but talking of furnaces I wanted to cast a part for a new project and dragged Lil Red out only to find that the insides had crumbled so that is going to need to be sorted before I can do any casting again  :doh:
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
https://myshedblog.wordpress.com/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2022, 10:42:13 PM »
What kind of lining, Dwayne?

Today I got my cerroblanket glued into the iron melter with sodium silicate. I also got a first coat of ITC 100HT ceramic coating on the face, and arranged an old incandescent lightbulb in it to keep it warm while it dried. It lives outside. Today temps were unusually warm -- we hit 40, and that was why I hurried to do the lining. It looks like the coating dried by this evening.

I don't know if this is really going to work out. The coating seems nothing like ironman's zircon stuff. More like very thinned out Portland cement -- kinda gritty and as thin as cream. It absorbed immediately into the blanket, and it looks a rough job. But  I hope it will look better with the second coat, and maybe once it's fired it will fuse into a strong coating.

The other small furnace will need some Plaster of Paris and sand mix to restore to usefulness. It's melted aluminum, zinc alloys, and brass with no problem, on propane.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline shipto

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Re: mess
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2022, 01:01:29 PM »
I can't remember the exact mix I used now but it was perlite, sand and cement. I got the mix while looking on the net and to be honest I didnt think much of it when it was new while it insulated enough for you to put your hand on the outside it was still quite hot but the main problem was that it wasn't electrically insulated very well so it would trip the RCD with the earth on.
I will invest in some bricks or maybe a proper mix this time, have not decided yet.
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
https://myshedblog.wordpress.com/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2022, 05:55:05 PM »
Portland cement is not a good melting furnace lining for a number of reasons. It isn't very temp resistant, breaks down, and as you say it isn't very insulative.

For an inexpensive home brew lining for temperatures up to occasional brass melting, plaster of Paris and sand mix is much better. It's fine for zinc and aluminum temps. And I have occasionally poured brass with it -- maybe a half dozen pours. That's with an inch and a half lining thickness. The outside of the furnace barely heats up with zinc and aluminum. Brass takes longer and the furnace heats some eventually on the outside.

Plaster of Paris is insulative -- ever notice how light it is after cure? That's air spaces in the the hardened material. It's actually used in commercial iron works as insulative sleeves for pouring funnels. Keeps the iron hot.

It isn't high temp resistant enough for an iron furnace lining, though. But for lesser metal temps it works find with sand.

If you're going to pour frequent brass, bronze, or you want to pour iron, you'll want to go to a specialized pourable refractory or ironman's ceramic blanket and hi temp coating combo. Neither is cheap. Pourable refractory heats up slower and uses more fuel. The main problem with Ironman's lining is finding the high temp coating. His exact type seems only available in Australia.

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline tom osselton

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Re: mess
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2022, 06:25:47 PM »
Yeah that ITC 100 looked clear with gravely bits in the bottom but it works a charm with the blanket. Iíve always stayed away from cast furnaces due to having to dry the castings before pouring on the heat every blue moon but with the blanket just fire it up!

Offline shipto

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Re: mess
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2022, 06:37:31 PM »
Well now I am earning a bit of extra "shop money" I can afford to splash out a bit, for now though the project I wanted the casting for is not a major concern so theres no need to rush into remaking it. When I first made it I did a lot of searching and did notice the plaster of paris but as it was going to be harder to come by went another suggestion which was portland cement. Live and learn I guess.
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
https://myshedblog.wordpress.com/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2022, 07:17:42 PM »
Tom do you melt iron?

Dwayne, my local hardware store carries plaster of Paris. It's used in walls. So very easy to find -- as easy as Portland cement. It comes (dry) in gallon plastic tubs, and larger quantities in bags.

But it is NOT the same thing as drywalll or joint compound, or spackle, both of which dry very slowly by evaporation. Those are completely different materials and unsuitable for a furnace, and also would never dry in the thickness needed.

Plaster of Paris, cures by chemical reaction with water, releasing heat. It cures very quickly and you have to pour very soon after mixing it. It is fairly inexpensive -- not a lot more than cement.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline tom osselton

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Re: mess
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2022, 05:32:19 PM »
I havenít cast iron yet I want to though aluminum and brass Iíve done. I would like to get a size 20 crucible (or at least bigger than my #6) I stayed out of the backyard this year to let the fox raise her litter.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: mess
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2022, 07:35:56 PM »
Thanks Tom.  :beer: Well iron temps with an oil blast furnace are much, much harder on a furnace lining, so I was just wondering when you said the ITC 100HT coating works a charm with the blanket, whether that was with experience at iron temps and melting times.

Looking at what I've done here, I'm a little skeptical yet that this coating is going to work well on an iron furnace. It seems very fragile over the soft fiber insulation.

The coating Ironman uses in the videos looks to be a very different consistency going on -- fairly thick and syrup-like and doesn't appear to absorb into the blanket like this very thin water mixed stuff does. The Australian product paints over the surface, and appears to give a rigid coating.

Even two coats of the ITC 100HT doesn't give much thickness, It seems fragile/crumbly and there are small flaws and folds where the white of the blanket shows. Brushing over the flaws doesn't bridge gaps well.

Well I guess I won't be able to tell until it gets fired. Maybe it hardens up into  a more rigid structural shell. I want to wait for a first heat until a little warmer weather is predicted. As I understand it it also needs a lower temp initial cure, not to exceed 600F for 6 hours. We have -4F predicted for Thursday night, and won't get above freezing until next week.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg