It's BIG, Yellow and digs holes! JCB 3CX Project 8 is joining the Tractor Shed

[awemawson]

So now we are left with the pair of taper roller bearings and a big seal (the one that's leaking) to remove - how hard can it be 

Well it took the whole of the rest of the day 

The outer bearing came off the axle spigot with a few solid thumps on the hub to encourage it leaving the inner bearing and seal on the swivel spigot. The inner race was tight against the seal shoulder with no room for  any pullers - I did try modifying one to suit but to make the claws fine enough to fit they were far too weak.

In the end I mangled the roller cage letting me remove it and the rollers which left me a shoulder on the race that I could get at with a drift. By carefully heating the inner race with a tangential flame I was (with several iterations) able to tap the race off the spigot - it took ages !

So now I was left with just the seal - again no gaps for pry bars etc. It turned out that the steel part of the seal had rusted to it's seating on the spigot. After much tapping and cajoling it eventually moved just enough for me to insert a crowbar after which it was mine 

Now the rust looked pretty horrid, but actually it was fairly light and a good application of emery and elbow grease cleaned it to a tolerable finish.The new seal will sit on this surface with Blue Hy-lo-mar sealing compound so it should be absolutely fine.

The outer bearing races tapped out of the hub easily so no issues there.
With any luck it's just a case of  putting it all back together tomorrow with new bearings and seals

[awemawson]

Apart from initially setting the axle oil draining ready for later it was a day of putting it all back together !

The seal went back on to the axle stub reasonably easily, and tapping the inner race onto the stub wasn't too bad once it had actually engaged. I turned up a bronze drift to tap it home all the way to the seal.

Once I'd fitted the outer races for the inner and outer bearings onto the wheel hub I reassembled the gear annulus  and its eight bolts all torqued to 320 nM (which is amazingly tight!) making sure that the pop marks I'd made on disassembly matched up to keep the orientation correct.

Time now to re-fit the sun gear facing the same way that it was when removed (I'd marked the outer face) and it's retaining circlip.

There is a large O ring seal between the wheel flange and the 'top hat' of the hub - I fitted a new one and smeared it and the flange face with blue HyLoMar to hopefully keep the oil in.

Then offering up the 'top hat' (which carried the planet gears) to the Wheel flange, with a bit of wiggling the gears engaged and it went home. These two are really held together by the wheel studs, but there is a pair of bolts from the rear to stop them parting when a wheel is changed. These bolts were dressed with Loctite pipe sealant as the threads form a passage to the outside world for the oil. They were then torqued to spec and the wheel re-fitted (blooming heavy!)

I had ordered 20 litres of gear oil which conveniently was delivered this morning and the axle draining was finished so I refilled it. I tried using my 12v fuel transfer pump but 90 weight oil was too much for it even at 24v so it was a case of squirting it in 1 litre at a time from a squeezy bottle that I kept refilling.

The hub got the same oil treatment after which the machine was brought down from its' cribbing and taken for a little drive round the yard.

Early days yet but no oil drips from the axle ! (That's blown it !)

[vtsteam]

Glad that worked out, Andrew. 

[awemawson]

Thanks Steve, always good to reduce leaks, though they do say that JCB's mark their territory 

Trouble with doing this sort of job is that you notice other things that should be done. The near side and offside steering swivel housings are tied together by a very heavy rectangular bar with beefy 35 mm diameter bronze bushes pressed in to accept 25 mm bolt retained pins. There is far too much play allowing the wheels to wobble independently.

My first reaction was to measure up and turn some new ones, but frankly when I saw the price of new ones it's not worth it, especially as I'd have to buy the bronze. The bushes and pins are just over a fiver each, and there are grease seals that I couldn't make anyway for less than a pound. So order placing tomorrow morning !

[russ57]

Now the continual feed rust prevention system is disabled, you'll have to paint it...



-russ

[awemawson]

To get an idea of how much play there was in the steering tie rod pins, and also the steering hydraulic RAM pins I wanted to shoot a couple of very short videos. Hardest part was persuading the wife to sit in the cab and rock the wheel !

. . . off to order the bits !

[awemawson]

The replacement tie rod bushes, pins, seals, grease nipples, and circlip arrived this morning - good service actually a day earlier than anticipated so a shout out to Vicary Plant Spares 

All I need now is a bit of enthusiasm to do the job - not today as it's drizzling and cold and anyway company is expected - probably won't get to it until the weekend.

Now please explain to me why 668 people have watched the little video I posted of the near side slack movement? The off side has had 27 views, which is about the number of views the pictures in this thread get, but why 668 for the other one - the title must trigger some search that certainly I don't understand 

[vtsteam]

Try changing the title by removing the "Project 9JCB....." portion of the offside video as a test.

If the hits are still disproportionate I'd say it simply comes up first in play order (as well as here in the thread), and the majority are not interested enough after seeing it to follow up with the second. Also check your stats and see how many people finish the first video as opposed to leaving it before the end. That would tell you if the title of the first one was generalized and therefore not well matched to the content. A viewer who is there mistakenly for a tie rod problem on his Prius will not follow up with more excavator wear videos.

[awemawson]

Today's task: replace the track bar pins, bushes and seals:

Firstly I turned up a tool to drive the old bushes out and the new ones in. Just a length of round bar large diameter 29.90 mm and smaller diameter 24.90 to be a nice clearance fit for the 30 x 25 mm bushes.

That done I raised the front axle on the bucket and applied myself to extracting the off side tie rod pin but very quickly got stuck with the inevitable 'gotcha's ' ! . The pin was amazingly tight - OK not unexpected - and eventually using an air chisel with a snub nose tool was able to get it moving upwards only to find that this pin retaining tab fouls on the eye of the steering ram, so the pin for the steering ram needs to come off first 

Now that wasn't too bad I I have the new bush for the steering ram to fit . . .BUT . . this pin is into a blind hole so no knocking it out from below and it's just as tightly in the non rotating bit as was the other pin.  . . . an impasse. I then discovered that by removing the mud guard, putting the steering hard over to the right and removing the steering ram grease nipple the tie rod pin retaining flag would just pass it if suitably rotated.

OK we're back in business - the old bush knocked out fairly easily and the new one went in fine. I took the precaution of injecting grease through the nipple to ensure that the passageway lined up. However the seals were most unhappy to be driven into their counter bore and I ended up spoiling two in the attempt.This means that I can only do this end of the tie rod today until more seals arrive.

At least this will give me time to work out how to remove the steering ram pin. My thoughts at the moment revolve round drilling and tapping it and using a slide hammer. It's a compromise between using a large thread size that will have the strength but weaken the pin in the event that I can't get it out or using a smaller thread that leaves plenty of material in the pin but may not be strong enough for the job !

[awemawson]

Try changing the title by removing the "Project 9JCB....." portion of the offside video as a test.

If the hits are still disproportionate I'd say it simply comes up first in play order (as well as here in the thread), and the majority are not interested enough after seeing it to follow up with the second. Also check your stats and see how many people finish the first video as opposed to leaving it before the end. That would tell you if the title of the first one was generalized and therefore not well matched to the content. A viewer who is there mistakenly for a tie rod problem on his Prius will not follow up with more excavator wear videos.

Oddly the views have almost equalised Steve having made no alterations to the titles   

They are sitting at something like 645 & 680 each and it still deeply puzzles me why so many people have viewed them. I just use Youtube as a way of sharing content (mainly) on this forum - I'm not running a 'channel' and really don't care how many hits they get, but it intrigues me !

[hermetic]

The inequality of views at first I cannot explain, but I can easily see why a picture and instructions for repairing any part of any JCB would get loads of hits from searches. I have two videos on my channel that have way more hits than others, one about repairing a Ford mondeo heater fan, and one about rebuilding a carb on a Stihl 08S chainsaw! When ppl want to do a job they have never done before, they start by googling it! I have had thanks from all over the world for publishing the Stihl carb repair!
Phil

[awemawson]

Last night I made an adaptor for my slide hammer to give it a 10 mm nose, and this morning drilled and tapped the blind pin that is very reluctant to come out.

Much sliding and much hammering and quite a bit of applied heat from a blow torch and . . . . .. the pin hasn't moved one jot 

. . . hey . . .there's not THAT much play on this pin, leave it . . . Get thee behind me Satan 

So at the moment another impasse. It's slathered in 'Plus Gas' penetrating oil more in hope than expectation whilst I have another re-think - I may make a longer slide hammer that would allow better whacking and I could perhaps give it a heavier hammer but I'm afraid of stripping the thread.

[RussellT]

Hi Andrew

If you've already tapped it you could try drilling right through the pin and using a bolt to jack it out, or using a bit of tube and some threaded rod to make a puller, (or both). When you've got as much tension on as you can then heat and bash it on the sides.

Sorry if your grandmother can already suck eggs.

Russell

[awemawson]

Russell yes that would be a good approach were it possible. I have no way of tapping a full length thread for the 100 mm of the pins length. The forging that the pin goes into is much deeper than the pin at that point and forms a vital web retaining the tie rod pins - I don't want to weaken it even if drilling through were an option so I can't hit it from below. I'm also not that confident that my 25 mm deep threaded  hole is sufficiently accurately vertical to arrive in the correct place were it extended to the needed 150-160 mm 

Current plan is to block up the front axle, remove the front wheel (more long scaffold tube torque amplifiers!) and have a go with the better access thus created. If still no go, I'll make a longer and heavier slide hammer with the risk that I'll strip the 10 mm thread.

If it does strip I have the possibility of one more round of attempts re-threading it at M12 as the tapping size for M12 is 10.2 mm

The 'burning my boats' approach it to cut the pin with a Sawzall and remove the upper and lower bits individually. The upper one should be OK but the lower one still has the problem of drilling and tapping at the bottom of a deep hole.

[mc]

If it does strip the 10mm thread, I'd just weld a slide hammer to the pin.

I've got an old slide hammer for the sole purpose of being welded to things, as it saves the hassle of drilling/tapping, plus the extra bit heat often helps loosen things.

[russ57]

. I have no way of tapping a full length thread for the 100 mm of the pins length....... I'm also not that confident that my 25 mm deep threaded  hole is sufficiently accurately vertical to arrive in the correct place were it extended to the needed 150-160 mm 

The thread doesn't need to be full depth - drill a smaller hole (8mm?) from the bottom of the tapped portion, and drop a "driver" rod into it which the 10mm bolt can then push

Although it risks buckling.

-russ

[awemawson]

This morning I successfully drilled a 5 mm hole roughly co-axial through the pin into the cavity below it without breaking the drill, which at 106 mm deep drilling hand held was a distinct possibility !

Two objectives: A/ Introduce penetrating oil below the pin for it to soak in  both ways, and B/ Possibly make a fitting to take a grease nipple into the M10 tapped hole to pressurise under the pin with a high pressure grease gun and maybe even force it out that way.

Well objective A/ did work but B/ is thwarted as the penetrating oil is leaking somewhere down there and there'd be no chance of getting significant pressure.

So back to heating and slide hammers. Another session with the existing slide hammer was fruitless so I made another hammer - actually repurposed the one I made to try and release the man hole cover over the bore hole. Had to weld on a smaller diameter 'stop' to match the 12 mm slider.

The 'new' hammer weighs 2.5 kg whereas the original was only 850 grams but still not effective. Obviously a longer slider lets you get up more speed thus greater inertia. Hunting for suitable rod a length of M12 studding came to hand and was pressed into service.

Still not moving the pin one iota  Amazingly the M10 thread into the pin hasn't stripped as it's taking an enormous whacking.  The pin will be a decent steel no doubt and the nose is made from an HT bolt.

. . . tactical withdrawal to cogitate !

[vtsteam]

Andrew I didn't want to intrude, since you seemed to have it handled -- the slide hammer seemed like it would work, but just as a last resort could you weld something onto your pin and tab to engage a puller? Or even just weld a big bolt on, head down, and pass it through a drilled bit of channel iron legs down, and us a nut to pull the pin? Then grind the temporary stuff off after?

[hermetic]

O/A! heat both ends of the pin till glowing red, then cool rapidly, repeat a few times and it should give up! Drill it out?
Phil

[awemawson]

Steve / Phil thanks for the comments.

If I were prepared to give the forging a good heat with OA I'm sure that the recalcitrant pin would come out with the slide hammer BUT there's just too much 'stuff' in that area that would suffer from the heat (oil seals etc) and it's not that easy to dismantle. (Hub has to be  dismantled and removed and we saw what a pain that was with the other side!)

As a last resort I'll keep filling the tapped hole with penetrating fluid in the coming season capping it with a bolt and hope that a bit of usage will free it up. The actual pin / bush wear isn't too awful.

[vtsteam]

Time, solvent oil, and pressure is a nearly inevitable shifter. Sounds like a plan! 

[WeldingRod]

Is this the pin that has a locking tab on it?  If so, put a jack or a wrench on it and try to turn it!  Maybe even while impacting ;-)

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk

[awemawson]

Yes it has a lock tab of reasonably heavy gauge - 3 or 4 mm.

I've tried driving it round with a big adjustable
I've tried driving it round with a punch and lump hammer
I've tried driving it round with a blunt air impact chisel
I've tried getting under it with a sharp cold chisel and lump hammer
I've tried getting under it with a sharp air chisel
I've tried levering it with a crowbar on the one bit where that's possible

 . . .all to no avail . . . that pin is REALLY stuck.

But I do agree with the comments regarding heating to red with OA - I'm sure that would work but I'm not doing it for the aforementioned reasons .

But I did make a new slider bar for the slide hammer this afternoon - I didn't like sliding on the 12 mm  - threaded bar - plain bar much better engineering even if it had the same lack of result 

[RussellT]

Hi Andrew

If you can't heat it up, how about trying to cool the pin.  Could you drop some dry ice into the hole you've drilled.  I seem to recall you can get dry ice by discharging a CO2 bottle into a cloth bag.

Russell

Edit: On second thoughts trying to fill the hole probably won't do it, but it should be possible to cool the top of the pin.

[awemawson]

Russell, I had considered that, or even the freezer spray used for electronics diagnosis, as I have some of that. But the amount that you can get in the hole is pretty minuscule.

I'm sorry to have to confess BUT I've admitted defeat on this one for the time being - it's taken up far too much of my time and at the end of the day the play in the pin is not a big issue. I've filled the hole with penetrating fluid, capped it with a bolt and put everything back together this morning. When and if I have to do the bearings and seals on the near side hub, which is fairly likely as the offside had to be done, I can then apply significantly more heat without risking to much collateral damage.

Meanwhile I'm back in clean clothes for the first time in days, and the jeans are going in the washing machine !