Author Topic: It's BIG, Yellow and digs holes! JCB 3CX Project 8 is joining the Tractor Shed  (Read 11194 times)

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
OK front axle hubs SORTED  :thumbup:

After MANY iterations of driving small amounts either forward or back, then clambering out of the cab and testing the cast in level line on the hubs I managed to get the lines level and test the oil levels one after the other. Near side wasn't too far off only needing about 250 cc but off side took most of a 1 litre bottle.

What would make this job far easier single handed would be one of those spirit levels that bleep at you when horizontal. Not sure if a magnetic version is available  :scratch:

So as far as gear boxes and hypoid oil is concerned that's it apart from the King Post slew gearbox. To do this the machine needs to be on a level surface and the back actor / hoe fully extended horizontal to expose the drain plug and filler / level plugs. Apparently this box accumulates condensation, and the process is to slacken the drain plug to drain the water off, and then tighten it and top up to level, the drain plug having grooves in it to let the water out without fully disengaging it's threads.

I don't quite have enough length in the tractor shed to set the machine up in this configuration so it will have to wait until I've moved a few things about
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 06:36:49 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
So today's job: check  / top up the 'Slew Gear Box' so I need to take the JCB out of the Tractor Shed and put it back in the other way round to give me room to extend and lower the boom and dipper to give access to the slew gearbox filler plug.

As I was moving it across the yard it was sensible to top up the diesel tank while there. It's a bit tight to get it close enough to the Diesel Bowser for the hose to reach and it had to be slightly up the ramp into the workshop to fit.

This revealed another issue to sort - the handbrake wouldn't hold it so needs adjusting !

79 litres later into the 100 litre tank brought it to the top, but I had to put both buckets on the floor to stop it rolling down the slope.

OK back to the tractor shed with the back actor / hoe in the correct position for the next step - check the slew gear box oil.

Drain plug was mighty tight taking a 6 foot scaffold pole on the breaker bar to shift it, and when loose very little condensation water came out. However the oil itself was rather emulsified so I decided to drain and refill with fresh. Left it for ages to end dripping to make sure it was all out.

Now the book - in fact two books (Owner Manual and Workshop Manual) say 4.3 litres but I got barely 2 litres in before it was topped up to the level plug. Not sure whats going on there and suitable questioning post placed on the Vintage JCB Facebook group that has some very knowledgeable members.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline hermetic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Country: england
Good Work Andrew, not really the weather for it, but  when it's done it will be a diamond!
Phil
Man who says it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Thanks for the kind words Phil, yes I'm getting there !

Annoyed that I hadn't measured the volume of the oil that I drained from the Slew gear box, and to satisfy this nagging doubt about the 2 litres of hypoid  that I got back in compared with the 4.3 that the book says, it dawned on me I could fill the drain pan with 2 litres of water and compare to the previous photo of the emulsified oil in the same pan. Sure enough what came out was marginally less than what I put back - the book must be wrong!

So hand brake tomorrow. Should be fairly simple, adjust pads to close to the disk, then take up the slack in the cable - this is assuming that the pads aren't too worn. Changing pads is easy (*) but I don't have any to hand.

(* I got used to changing pads on my Project 7 - it was all too easy to drive off with the handbrake on fully, and either rip the pads out or wear them rapidly. This machine has an interlock microswitch. Hand brake on and no motion !

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Back under this morning to sort out the parking brake. As I mentioned it's a caliper and pads working on a disk on one of the prop shafts ie a 5th brake, with each wheel having a 'wet brake' internal to the respective axle.

It was just a case of adjusting the 'hold off' of the pads - the hand lever doesn't have a ratchet as you might expect, but is an 'over centre toggle' arrangement. So adjustment is done by ensuring that in the toggled position (ie 'on') the pads firmly grip the disk. It was quite a way off. Then a quick check to make sure that the interlock microswitch was still doing sensible things - it was - and a short drive to the ramp to check that it would now hold the machine - it does  :thumbup:

I'd intended to grease the three prop shafts while I was under there but ran out of enthusiasm. The two driving the axles have three nipples each - one on each universal joint and one on the sliding spline. But oddly, if the book is to be believed, the shaft driving the hydraulic pump, although of the same construction, only has one on the spline - presumably the u/j's are sealed for life? I'll find out when I grease it !

Instead I finally got round to starting to clean out the toolbox. I thought I'd taken pictures of it's utterly disgusting state, but I can't find them. There were various bucket shims and wear bushes, but so much dried up grease that I couldn't detach them from the box until I used a scraper. Anyway today I gave the inside a good brushing down with red diesel and left it to soak, having first scraped and hoovered as much as possible. After a wipe down it's a bit more palatable but still not exactly clean. It'll do for now until things get steam cleaned and painted.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
I decided the time had come to have a serious go at cleaning the build up of ancient grease off the machine. Arming myself with a hand pump bottle of Gunk, all the accumulations of baked on grease got a thorough soaking, going round the machine three times.

I then left it to soak for a couple of hours while I did some paperwork (oh joy!) and came back to give it a very intensive cold water pressure wash with my petrol driven unit.

The result was much less than spectacular - OK some got blasted off, mostly onto me, but not at all satisfactory. This stuff is REALLY tuff - I suppose it's a mixture of grease, hydraulic oil, and dust of whatever site it's been working on. It needs the steam cleaner to do a proper job.

So, with the JCB out of the tractor shed I took the opportunity to dig out the Karcher Steam Cleaner from where it was  buried deep behind tractors, flail mowers, a dumper truck and assorted junk. Now I knew that it's battery had died and was refusing to take a charge, and that the high pressure cut off switch needs attention, but hadn't been able to get at it to do anything - but now I can  :thumbup:

To get a replacement I needed to pull the battery out to identify it. I do wish the designer had been with me while I did it - what a ridiculous 'design'. To remove the battery, you have to remove the diesel tank (only a Jerry Can), the frame that secures the diesel tank (three bolts BUT it's used to tether the main wiring trunking with bolts from inside the trunk behind the loom!) then remove the top and back of the electrical enclosure. Now there is JUST room to slide the battery rearwards. If the plonker had made the frame opening big enough the battery  could have been lifted vertically like any other conventional positioning. As I say, I wish the 'designer' had been with me - he'd have learnt a few new expressions!

After that it was only an '096' 75 AH 680 CCA normal car battery - one on order should arrive tomorrow when I'll have to go through the reverse rigmarole.

. . . then I can start it . . then I can attack the pressure switch issue . . .then perhaps I can steam clean the JCB - why is life so bally complicated!

Have a before and not much better after photo !



Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline hermetic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Country: england
I used this on the tractor Andrew, wear face protection as its a bit caustic, but I was amazed how much paint was on the tractor when I cleaned it, and areas that I thought were bare rusty metal were actually muck on top of good paint!! I think gunk is another thing that has had the essential solvents removed by H&S! it used to look and smell a bit like jeyes fluid, and would rip into any grime if left long enough!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223961393879
Phil
Man who says it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Thanks for the link Phil, I've put it on my 'watch list'

The new battery arrived for the steam cleaner, so I've just fitted which was an ridiculous struggle as anticipated. I proved that the engine now starts briskly but the weather at the moment and working in an open shed  I've lost the will to live so have retreated to an open fire and a cup of best Yorkshire Tea  :thumbup:

Before completely battening down the hatches on the battery compartment  I want to re-make the terminal arrangement - that 'designer' bloke again has created an abortion of copper links pivoting on the terminal clamp screws to bring the cables  up to the top of the battery from the recessed posts. I hope to fit a stud style with proper crimped lugs if I can keep the height low enough not to arc on the metal cover.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline russ57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
if I can keep the height low enough not to arc on the metal cover.

Don't worry, the arcing will create its own clearance...


But you have to wonder what is in some people's minds. It's bad enough when its something that was highly unlikely to ever need attention, but a battery, or indeed many other service items as you have explored on the jcb, should have had accessibility as a primary requirement.

I remember my FIL telling me of a particular v8 engine vehicle. Changing 7 spark plugs had a service allowance of about 30mins, the 8th had an allowance of 6 hours as it was necessary to drop the exhaust and remove manifolds to reach.

-russ

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Very good Russ - hopefully not necessary  :clap:

Woke up to an extremely heavy hail storm beating on the windows. When it had ceased, checking the rain gauge, it melted into a tad over 20 mm but it sounded like most of the ice cap was being hurled at the house!

I braved the tractor shed, doors open to give adequate light, and had a go at the Karcher Steam Cleaner battery terminal arrangement. I won't list all the 'gotcha's ' that tripped me up on the way but suffice it to say all I got done in a three hour session was to re-wire the battery terminals. Anyway eventually it was done and I could move on to the next step - look at the flakey pressure switch.

This switch was actually broken when I got the MPDS fourteen years ago - in theory it's relatively simple. It monitors pumped water pressure by moving a rod up against a spring. Fixed to the rod are two plastic disks, between which sits the operating lever of the actual microswitch. When I got it, the disks being brittle plastic, had cracked and temporarily I replaced them with 'penny washers' as at the time the workshop was still packed up from moving so no lathe. Since then I've turned a suitable nylon spool arrangement, but it's always been hard to set the hysteresis reliably, and I suspect this is the issue now. I did prove that the micro-switch was working and operated the electric clutch for the high pressure pump, but to go further requires connecting up the water and I'm already too cold and have retreated to the house! It'll have to wait for the next session.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
After MANY quite serious (*) distractions I got to water up the pressure washer this morning, and it's not good news I'm afraid. I do vaguely remember similar problems a year or two ago and thinking I'd have to tear the pump apart. The high pressure pump is leaking back into the water feed pipework and blowing it apart with quite dramatic results. I assume that there is one (or more) none return valves in the pump through which it draws it's feed and they should close as it pumps, but it (they) must be stuck open.

OK a job for the future and I'll have to find another way of de-greasing the JCB  :bang:

(*Many Distractions: A friend was here having tea waiting for the time to collect toddler from playschool in Battle - a couple of miles away. Goes to car and starter solenoid just clicks. I trundle a huge tractor battery to it in a wheel barrow - still just clicks - getting dark, can't see the starter motor to thump it - time running out - OK I'll take you to collect child and worry about car when we return. While this is going on her husband rings to say that their Shire Horse mare is 'down' - this mare is 3 months from foaling. OK abandon car, take her and three kids home meanwhile husband trying to get vet. Dropped her off, still no VET, and she is arranging for Fire Brigade Fallen Stock Unit to try and raise the mare.

This morning I got the sad news that the mare (and of course foal) had to be put down - all rather depressing)
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Spurry

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
  • Country: england
  • Norfolk, UK
It seems that the more problems we have, there is always someone who has more...

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
That's certainly true Pete, sadly someone else is always having a worse time.

Still the RAC turned up to tow her car away today, and by one of those odd co-incidences he was a chap who rents storage space for his caravan here !

So this evening I proved that a hot air gun was able to soften the congealed grease on the JCB sufficiently for it to scrape off with a paint scraper, but this is not a practical method. Firstly it would take a month of Sundays, but also there is a danger of scraping the paint off as well.

. . . However it proves that a hot water pressure washer should work.

Next decision . . devote time to dismantling and hopefully fixing the Karcher MPDS or shove it back in storage and find another method . . . .suggestions on the back of an envelope please !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline russ57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
While possibly not the optimal outcome for you, a thread on repair and refurbishment of the pressure washer would be an interesting interlude to the refurbishment of the jcb...

Otherwise, did you try a spray on degreaser?
Or, depending on the location etc, can you feed hot water into the cold water washer? Nowhere near as hot but maybe sufficient?

-russ


Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
You are right of course Russ !

I woke up this morning thinking I can't face working down on the floor (where the Karcher water valves are) on this rather cold blustery day with my head streaming with a cold (no NOT Covid - I tested last night!)

Then it struck me - let the JCB HELP with the Karcher steam cleaner repair - it has forks (although up until now I've not deployed them) so bung it on the forks and raise it to a convenient working height. Looking at it, it is possible that the valves I need to rectify are all 'screw in external' types.

. . . job done . . just needed to lubricate the bar that the forks slide on to be able to slide them into a narrow enough format, and numerous ups and downs in and out of the cab to get them level and an inch off the ground before sliding the Karcher onboard and lifting to a convenient working height.

I've leave it at that for now, and put the dismantling and hopefully repair in the 'rebirth' thread that already exists on the forum: here for new viewers!

Old thread to be updated in a few days : https://www.madmodder.net/index.php/topic,11079.msg128557.html#msg128557


Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline WeldingRod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
Wow!  An actual accumulator!!!  If you have the fittings you may want to verify that it's still pressurized.  Sneaky would be to apply pressure from the water side with a hand pump.  Presdure should go up quick to the precharge pressure, then the slope will change.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
I suspect that it isn't, as the poor old pressure meter oscillates all over the place when running !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline WeldingRod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
Ooh!  Yeah that's not optimal!  Do you have the gas fittings?  Theres, like, 5 standards :-(
I had to kit our shop with a whole whack of them.  And a gas booster to reach 5ksi precharge...

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Well at long last I'm getting round to sorting the irritating oil drips from the front axle.

The offside front hub drips from its rear seal which involves quite a bit of dismantling as the seal is the far side of a large bearing that has to be removed, but it's a drive on fit. I now have the seal and a set of bearings as they are unlikely to survive removal.

The front axle differential pinion shaft seal is dripping - this requires the front of the front prop shaft to be removed, the drive yoke and retaining 'staked nut' to be removed then the seal to be pulled and replaced.

I've been held up devising a safe way to support the front axle while this is going on. The various nuts are torqued to phenomenally high values so undoing is not going to be a gentle process and I don't want it all to come crashing down.

Rejecting my wimpy axle stands as too weak. A friend gave me some stout 'cable jacks' - very adequately strong but sadly 6" too tall. Another friend cut me some huge baulks of tree trunk from his wood - height obviously easily adjusted but their girth was so big I couldn't get them in place round other obstructions. In the end I found a 6" x 6" gate post that had rotted out and was destined for the bonfire, but there was enough reasonably sound timber to cut five one foot lengths to arrange as cribbing that seems (now in use) to be very adequate for the job. Much better to have wood / metal contact than metal / metal  contact in situations like this.

So this morning I loosened the five wheel nuts using a 6 foot scaffold pole (660 nM torque  :bugeye: ) before raising the machine on the front bucket and applying the cribbing. Then it was a case of removing the wheel and it's associated mudguard.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 09:10:29 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
So with the wheel out of the way access was far better to the prop shaft yoke etc.

The front U/J is retained by 12 point 3/8" UNF  bolts - first time I've come across these, but apart from being extremely tight they came off OK with a normal 3/8 bi-hex socket.

This revealed the 'staked nut' that holds the yoke on - now this is tightened REALLY tight then the staking is applied, so to stop it rotating there is a special tool that slides onto the yoke and the other end rests on the floor. I did what I could to 'unstake' the nut then again using the 6 foot scaffold pole broke the nut free.

This allowed me to tap the yoke rearwards and remove it. Not suprisingly the seal surface of the yoke is rather scored.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline hermetic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
  • Country: england
Ouch! that is rather scored, turn it down and sleeve it? Our American cousins have a full range of ready made sleeves on the shelf but I don't  know if they are available in the uk, of course it is probably hard as the hobbs of hell, but I am sure you have machines and inserts that will cope with it! Metal spraying could be an alternative.
Phil
Man who says it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Phil, It just so happens that I have a replacement to hand - I thought it unlikely that it wasn't scored so I bought one in anticipation! I had thought that if it were I could mount it in the cylindrical grinder  and remove a few thou but though not cheap they don't break the bank!
 
Now the issue is removing the old seal - my brand new seal removal tool broke on it's first outing  :bang:

I'll probably fabricate a puller but not today - company due any minute !

« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 09:16:34 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
So this morning I made a 'slide hammer' to remove that pesky seal.

(6 mm silver steel 'hook' bent red hot, threaded into a 7/16 rod with a bung welded on the far end and a random bar end drilled 1/2" as the hammer)

Did it work? . . . Well initially NO  :bang:

It was obviously applying significant force and although distorting the flat steel face of the seal, the axial part just wasn't for coming out.

Reluctantly I ground up a very small chisel and gently cut through the flat steel face at one point and only then would the axial part release. I can only suppose that it had been installed with Loctite bearing retainer or some such product.

Now the seal is out the oil of course wants to drain to a lower level so while that happens I'm off to chop firewood. Hopefully this afternoon I can put it back together with the new seal.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
So after lunch I fitted the new oil seal to the differential pinion shaft.

Before fitting the yoke I had to fettle it's casting to fit the genuine JCB spanner - it's obviously a pattern part.

Once the yoke was back in place (which took quite a bit of tapping to get on the new heavily greased seal) I torqued up the special 36 mm AF nut with my newly acquired monster Britool torque wrench to 250 nM. Then I staked the nut and re-fitted the UJ retaining saddles. This wasn't without incident as of course the needle roller bearings wanted to all fall out.

OK when the needles were all back it was just a case of torquing the 12 point bolts retaining the saddles to 79 nM with my baby Britool torque wrench, however this wasn't entirely straight forward as locking the prop shaft from turning with a bar through the UJ in two of the four positions needed blocked putting the spanner on  :bang: Anyway all now done.

I've set the hub draining ready for my next session which won't be until Monday at the earliest.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8653
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Today's objective: Remove the hub and dismantle the bearing and seal assembly ready for new components.


Well I achieved it in the end but it was a mighty struggle. Actually removing the hub was easy, Two bolts retain it from the rear once the wheel is off (wheel studs being the main mechanical retention). Method is to slacken the bolts and tap them to force the planet gear 'top hat' off its seal. Then the removal of the sun gear and the gear annulus was easy once I'd determined that the extracting bolts were M12 (a lot of Imperial fittings as well as metric on this machine)

Then the fun started . . . .
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 12:27:21 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex