The Breakroom > The Water Cooler
Ban of sales of IC engined cars to support electric cars by 2040
hanermo:
Interesting comments --- let me put my oar in.
1- First, typical grid-use has about a 1:10 variance, ie minimum 10% use vs max capacity at peak.
2- Second, typical travel is about 30-40 km/day/car. Use 40 km.
3- Use == 200 Wh/km as avg consumption, around 200Wh/km/Tesla 3, a heavy upmarket car vs a 160 Wh/km on the small economy-bevs, or less on a tiny Renault Twizzy.
So, a typical BEV user needs == 40 km / 200 Wh/km == 8 kWh/day total consumption.
A typical house uses == 20 kWh /day, with the 10:1 variance.
So a house uses about 0.3-0.4 kW avg. load at night, and about 10x that during the peak usage, with an average 1 hour smoothing/variance.
So peaks of 6-10 kW, with avg. 4-6 kW loads per hour for a few hours.
Average typical houses have 12 kW peak capacity, mostly 15 kW+ for newer ones.
Thus, an avg. house at even if at only 10 kW peak capacity, can charge the total 20 kWh into a BEV in about 2 hours, often less than that, and under 3 hours average worst-case.
ALL modern electric grids could, in practice, charge 100% of all our car use, using nighttime electricity, very cheaply, in the aggregate.
A very old house, of only 6 kW peak capacity, could still charge the 20 kWh total in about 3.5-4.5 hours, between 11 pm - 5 am.
Based on the simple fact that our avg. peak capacity is == 12 kW/house or more, but leaves == 11kW+ peak capacity load available during 11 pm - 6 am, mostly at near-zero use.
As-is, where-is, the current grid could support approx 90-100% of electric cars for all users, in the EU, USA, and most-all oeced countries.
It is also extremely cheap, and extremely efficient.
Nighttime power is very much available, very cheap, and even thrown away by the electric utilities via resistor networks.
ANY nighttime BEV income the electric utilities get is more or less free-money to them, since 100% of their costs and investments are paid for by the current system in peaking-power and prime-time power, mostly, about 90%.
Utilities LOVE BEV charging, especially on a variable-load as-available basis, ie BEV charges on an as-available basis.
As more and more wind power is added, and wind power is biased for nighttime, the utilities can turn off more expensive secondary options, and reduce peaking power plants, that are extremely costly.
The costs for utilities go down via BEV nite-time use, incomes go up, utilization rates go up, reliability goes up.
Current systems costs, delivered, zero subsidy, for utilities are about 2-4 cents/kWh, all-in, via 20 year PPUs, in wind and PV.
These drop 5-10% y/y, and already most of the costs, over 50%, are political BOS costs, ie paperwork and political stuff.
awemawson:
Bit of an issue for all the dwellers in flats and small terrace houses typical of London where the pollution issue started with our politicians as you can't get your vehicle anywhere near your own electricity :bugeye:
Urban areas are obviously far easier, but that's not the bulk of the problem.
vtsteam:
Even if night time transmission capacity were able to support an all-electric vehicle fleet on the present scale (which I doubt), I absolutely don't buy that the generating fuel consumption would remain at its even current disastrous rate. I could imagine it doubling however.
What I mean by disastrous is the effect of warming on sea ice clathrates, releasing methane, a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Tipping that scale is chain reaction stuff. No stopping it once the critical temp is reached. Ice melts, methane released, temperature rises, ice melts, methane released, etc.
Our planet's atmosphere wasn't always what it is today, and a reversion to the times when all that plant matter (from which we get fossil fuels) was going growth crazy in a carbon dioxide rich hot water everywhere soup would have been a rapidly poisonous atmosphere for you and I.
By releasing that plant bound CO2 (and shortly methane as sea temps rise) we are tipping the balance past the point of no return.
Look up sea ice clathrates to get some idea of the scale of potential methane release. Then check the greenhouse effect of methane vs CO2.
Fossil carbon is locked up for a reason, at least as far a human life is concerned. The planet doesn't really care what we do with it. If we want to let the genie out of the bottle, fine. It's as happy in the Carboniferous era as it is supporting humans and our antics.
John Stevenson:
23years hence.
5 more governments in power inbetween
Nuff said
Pete W.:
Here's my two penneth:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/07/30/successful-cover-up-and-lack-of-accountability-in-climate-deception/
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