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Sieg X2 and Sealey Sm2502

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raynerd:
Hi Guys

I`ve been looking at these two mills, the X2 and SM25. Could someone explain why the SM2502 has a much higer price tag - £850 and the X2 can be purchased new for £390? Is the sm2502 a much better machine for the money?

Sieg X2:
Drilling capacity 13mm
End milling capacity 16mm
Face milling capacity 30mm
350watt/1/2 hp (single phase) Motor rating
High/low gear selection
Cross axis (X) 100mm
Longitudinal axis (Y) 220mm
Headstock travel (Z) 180mm
Spindle taper MT#3
Spindle tilting angle -45 degree +45 degree
T-slot 12mm
Chuck guard
Packed dimensions 540x500x760 mm
Packed weight 68kg approx

Sealey SM2502
Drilling Capacity: 13mm
Face Mill Capacity: 30mm
End Mill Capacity: 16mm
Headstock Travel: 180mm
Cross Axis: 100mm
Longitudinal Axis: 220mm
Spindle Tilt Angle: ±45°
Spindle Taper: MT3
Spindle Speed - Low Range: 0-1100rpm
Spindle Speed - High Range: 0-2500rpm
T-Slot: 12mm
Motor Power: 350W - 230V
Weight: 68kg
 
I have been getting quite confused because it looks to me like there are two sealey machines, the sm25 and the sm2502:
SM2502 - http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?gotonode=ViewProduct&method=mViewProduct&productid=9221
SM25 -    http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?gotonode=ViewProduct&method=mViewProduct&productid=8044

I have been trying to identify this machine:



I first thought it was a sieg X2 but now believe it to be the SM2502? It is currently at £200 and I was considering it should it go to below £250 but I`m now confused - if it is the sm2502 is it really worth £300 (+£40 petrol to pick it up) when I can get an X2 for £375 new?

Any help appreciated. Just so you know where I am at - I have just finished a little project of a carriage stop for my lathe which I will shortly be posting on the site. I have done some light milling using a vice and clamping the work in the toolpost on the lathe and was really impressed by the results. It worked really well and I have decided that due to money, space and current level of skill, something in size range of the mills above would suit me. It is just getting one at the right price. ...

Cheers
Chris

bogstandard:
Chris,

First off, Sealey is geared towards the motor trade, and when looking at machinery like this, they are just box shifters.

They are selling to an audience that most times have no idea of the cost of machinery, just buy it in and stick it on the bench, and as such Sealey just put a figure on it and hope it sells. They are renowned for being very expensive for machinery compared to normal outlets. Clarke (Machine Mart) is another of such outlets. Your mini lathe was most probably bought by someone who didn't know which way to stand up, hence the very little use it had had. But they do usually have a higher quality control on the items they do sell, and will be made to about the best standards they can be (but that doesn't mean set up spot on, just made). Your lathe attests to that, when measured up, it was almost perfect in all areas.

The SM 25, is a rather large machine, and is called in general terms a mill/drill. It is about twice the size and weight of the X2 you are looking at. Normal machine retailer cost is just under 1K squid.

Where you can score if buying a low mileage used machine second hand, are the bits that come with it. For starters, if you buy a new machine, you will also be required to buy a collet set and a vice, which will most probably set you back 150 squid, on top of what you have just paid for the new machine. Then you will have cutters and other ancilliaries like parallels to get as well.

If you can get all these thrown in with the second hand machine, it then becomes a very tempting package indeed. If it doesn't come with the tooling, it looks a little on the high cost side, and again, you will have to factor in the cost of essential tooling. You will need to ask the seller the right questions.

The X2 does have a few little niggles, but third party upgrades can take care of those, at extra cost to you of course. You could buy a brand new machine, put a bit too heavy a cut on, and within five minutes you can have a breakdown when the gears shed their teeth. Spares are readily available and reasonably cheap, but being without a machine for a few days can be a bit offputting, so people usually go for a belt drive conversion, which seems to cure the problem and makes the machine a lot quieter, and again, more cash out of the moth pit in your wallet.

These are all things that have to be looked at. A machine is just a collection of parts for a price, getting it to a stage where it will do the job is another matter. A rule of thumb, cost of machine = X, cost of getting the bits to make it useable will cost X divided by 2. So a 400 squid new machine will require another 200 squid (minimum) for operational bits.

John

raynerd:
Hi John

As always, I appreciate your advice.

You know I have been looking at milling for a while and since my lathe was tuned up I haven`t been away from it. I am becoming much more capable and I think since having success is making a simple part, I have become more confident. I have been milling some very soft aluminium and even with a temporary fix of a clamped down job in the tool post on the lathe, I was really impressed with the results. A mill is definitely on the cards, it is just finding one at the correct price.

I have always had to be sensible when spending my money and hence when I paid £120 for my clarke cl300m lathe, saw it up and running, I couldn`t go far wrong - it does seem however that this sort of bargain on a milling machine is eluding me - there just doesn`t seem to be as many for sale.

Never the less - I will keep looking. I like the fact that the X2 is well documented on the internet, there seems to be lots of common knowledge and upgrades and the vast majority of people seem very happy with it. The X3 or even the X3 super would be my mill of choice but is well out of my price range for the foreseeable future. I understand what you are saying about tooling and I think I need to be patient - I couldn`t afford a new X2 and tooling, it will need to be a second hand X2 with tooling (at a price equivelent to new) or second hand machine only at around half price. Thanks for brining the issue of tooling up, it is certainly another factor I will need to consider.

Chris

bogstandard:
I understand where you are at Chris, and very few people have the readies available to get everything they want first off. So it is a matter of biding your time, saving a few more pennies, then get the items you really need. Almost everyone here has been in your situation, so it is nothing new for us to see you struggling with your decisions, we have been thru the same thing.

I am also glad you are using your lathe a lot more, rather than thinking of new ways to upgrade it. Once you know how to use it blindfold, then look at your original goal of what you want to use it for. Then you will have a much deeper understanding of it's limitations, only then will you know if it will do what you want it too.
You may laugh at the blindfold bit, but until you can safely use all the controls without looking for them (and not sticking your fingers into moving parts), you are still learning. I am just reaching that stage on my two new machines after eight months, and only then will I progress onto the next stage, which for me is single point screwcutting on my lathe, the mill I already have under my belt.

Rush it and you get a rushed finish to the job, take your time, and most jobs will end up perfect.

John

Darren:
Hi Chris,
I sympathise with you,

What, where and how much are all obstacles we have to juggle, the latter often being the most difficult.

most of the time the wants are heavily outweighed by needs for non machine related parts of our lives.


That's why you see me playing with dead things  :lol:

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