Author Topic: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project  (Read 106851 times)

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #150 on: July 24, 2009, 08:01:24 PM »
After a short break for a busman's holiday at the beach, with all my young ones, I finally got caught back up on my sleep and hit the shop, ready to work. I'm getting the first feelings of melancholy that a project nearing its end seems to cause. I like having something to work on and I almost feel sad to see one finishing up. Anyway.... Rounding the clubhouse turn and getting ready for the sprint down the home stretch.

The last installment had the gas tank in its early machining stages. Since I planned to use glass ends a bit of machining to the ends was required to accept "O" rings and the glass disk. Then I had to turn up a couple of outer rings to clamp the "O" rings and glass firmly in place in order to hold the fuel.

Everything was bound not going to go perfectly, even though the 2-56 tapping went very smoothly. The first test fit found me wringing 2 of the 2-56 stainless screws off in one of the soldered ends. Note to self.... double check Z axis DRO before you begin drilling as you just might have moved the drill bit in the chuck.... Yeah he did....LOL. The DRO's proved to be worth every dime as I placed 32 bolt holes in a circular pattern with accuracy in the .00015 range.

You never know where you'll find your materials. The glass used in the tank ends came from a pair of ... oooops... three cheap watches purchased at Walmart. It's only 1/16 thick but it's tested to withstand pressure to 100 ft. They do not, however, stand up well to ham handed tightening of hex head cap screws. I managed to break the first one I installed. 



The wire that has served the tank so well is now history and the supports are well on their way to getting bolted on. The 1/8 inch square brass had to be annealed before being bent to create a nice snug friction fit around the tank. The ends will bolt to the engine body and will hold the tank 1/4 inch below the crab jet to prevent siphon action, something that would cause severe flooding and an engine that doesn't run. additional bracing will be added to give the supports some added rigidity.



The pump has been trimmed up in preparation for fitting. Yeah... the copper wire is back in a new application, but it certainly proved handy when trying to get a look at elevations and such. The required eccentric is on tomorrow's list of projects, along with finishing the pump's end cap and the beginnings of the plumbing fittings.



The pump has to have a water supply and the engine "needs" a means for cooling the water, so a reservoir comes in handy. The screen will act as a cooling surface as water cascades over it to air cool. The  screen is from a kitchen drain strainer and was a very cheap source of stainless mesh.



It all is beginning to come together as small details are developed. The electronics have arrived and the plug will be drilled and tapped tomorrow, as I begin tearing the engine down for wiring and final polishing. The wooden round base has already been hollowed out for the ignition system and I've begun marking out to locate the mounting holes for the engine body and the end support. It sounds as if I'm multi-tasking, but it's more like all the final steps are dependent on each other at least being there so the next can be started.

 

Keep those fingers crossed as this thing gets closer to its first smoke test.

Steve

Offline zeusrekning

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #151 on: July 24, 2009, 08:29:45 PM »
I was gonna ask where you got the glass from. The tank mount is perfect. I would have to say this engine is very "Cedgiesh".  :clap:

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #152 on: July 24, 2009, 08:38:07 PM »
I've got to say it's looking rather fancy now Steve  (Well it has been looking that way for a while!)

I do like the fact that you found the glass in the watches  :thumbup:


It's 01:30 here and my eyes are getting heavy. So this had me re-reading 3 times before I figured out the typo!!..... "What the hell's a crab jet? " (as he tries to wake up his brain!!)  :lol:

Quote
The ends will bolt to the engine body and will hold the tank 1/4 inch below the crab jet to prevent siphon action,




Looking forward to seeing the "Smoke test"




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline georgeseal

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #153 on: July 24, 2009, 08:53:37 PM »
Ralph,
A crab jet is what they use on the Deadlest Catch to get 'm back to shore before they spoil :doh:
George from Conyers Ga.

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #154 on: July 24, 2009, 09:27:24 PM »
Hell... I'd fix it but you guys are having way too much fun....LOL

Steve

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #155 on: July 25, 2009, 01:56:46 AM »
Hi Steve

Thats wonderful in a strange way the engines got a Jewels Vern look about it a 1000 Leages under the sea or the Time Machine,

Absolutely fantastic, thanks for sharing.

Stew
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #156 on: July 25, 2009, 02:20:44 AM »
Hi Steve

Thats wonderful in a strange way the engines got a Jewels Vern look about it a 1000 Leages under the sea or the Time Machine,

Absolutely fantastic, thanks for sharing.

Stew

To me, it is an assembly of many jewels.......  :thumbup:

David D
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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #157 on: July 25, 2009, 02:44:21 AM »
Steve,

Yet again, superb examples of your imagination, and getting the ideas into the finished articles.

Just a little pointer, for very thin glass, if you go to a good photographic shop, they should have in stock, or be able to order for you, glass slide mounts.
I used to use a medium format camera, and the 2 1/4" square glass slide mounts (usually made by Gepe)would each contain two nice pieces of 2.5" square glass, at about 0.020"(0.5mm) thick. It is anti Newton and fairly tough, and with care can easily be dressed with diamond files and wheels into whatever shape you need. All the usual common sense safety precautions should be used. Glasses and mask, plus a big box of field dressings if you are accident prone.

Nice one.

John

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2009, 03:15:24 AM »
That is looking mighty fine magnificant fantastic absolutely beautiful a work of art Words fail me to describe what you have imagined and then brought to be. That is true craftmanship and also an inspiration to others ( like myself ) to go beyond making a functional model, but to try and make it mighty good looking too.

My hat is off to you



Tim


ps, I can't wait to see a video of it running
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #159 on: July 29, 2009, 07:31:49 PM »
Guys
Your sharing in the fun has made this project a treat. I've been watching for old Jules to come calling to reclaim his property, but so far the coast is clear. The engine really has taken on a Verne-esque quality, as the small finishing details are added. I might never build another IC engine, but the one I've gotten from this project is just crazy enough to fit me and the collection to a "T". If that measure constitutes success, then it has been just that... a success.

The project has reached the point where all the work is small stuff, some tedious and delicate, some of it almost downright boring. Progress is ongoing but at a much less dramatic and slower pace.... thus the gaps in time between posts. Most of the work has been permanently mounting and fitting things, fine tuning assemblies and the delicate tweaking  of parts that involves.

Since I've been pretty open in this thread, I'm almost obligated to share the very near disaster that sneaked up on my a couple of nights back. After mounting the engine to the base and making some adjustments to the 3 bearings to loosen things back up, I began the process of fine tuning the long train of components that run from the governor to the very top of the engine.

3:30 AM is not the best time to be doing things that require ones fullest attention, but then it's also a time when your judgment concerning such things is not at its highest. The engine was chucked in the lathe so I could observe the governor under power and make the needed adjustments to various parts and pieces. Part of this process required that I position the cylinder section atop the base between "running" the engine the lathe.

Everything was going fine and I'd been religiously removing the cylinder section between each test run. Then a serious case of cranial flatulence descended on me. For some reason, without thinking, I reached for the lathe's start switch and flipped it on before removing the cylinder. 

Remember the cam gear? ......yeah.... the one with all the spokes and teeth and time. When the dust settled, there sat an engine with everything nice and square, with the exception of the the cam gear, which now sat at an odd angle of about 25° off plumb. The cylinder was hanging from the rear of the engine in an even more distressing angle. I'm not sure how long it took me to react, but all the the chaos was long completed, before I could even begin to move to stop it.

Now... long experience has taught me a number of things, among which is the fact that adrenalin and shock do not contribute positively to making sound decisions. As I began to untangle the damage I slowly took stock of things. I then moved the engine to my work table where I sat and stared at it until the obscene expletives ran down in my mind. Only then did I begin to run a rapid mental train of options for fixing the problems.

Luck didn't totally desert me, as it became obvious that everything was still "intact". No broken spokes were evident, but the center hub was listing badly and there was some indication that the cam ring or gear might have suffered, but only some testing would tell the tale. I began by grabbing a 5/16 transfer punch (among any shop's most versatile tools) to use as a Tommy bar. After carefully placing the gear in the mill vice, this let me gently manipulate the center hub and carefully nudge things back in position by eyeball.

I then paused and took stock of my options, once again, deciding the lathe definitely offered more potential tricks than anything else at hand. I mounted the gear on the small arbor I used during the gear cutting adventure and turned on the lathe. Things were looking up as I noted the eyeballing had been quite surprisingly effective. It wasn't perfect, but well things were well within the range of repairable, assuming I could come up with a means to push it all back into position.

Once again that mental options train left the station, as I smoked things over. If you let ideas stew long enough they tend to distill themselves and something will usually bob to the top. One of the tools I use quite a bit is a small rollerl on a bar that can be clamped in the QTCP. This tool lets me remove the wobble from work pieces that were removed and then placed back in the lathe for further work. It has the added benefit of being able to apply pressure to a work piece either from the side, or from the end, in order to bring the piece into square with the center line of the lathe. It might not be an industry acceptable text book tool, but then I've never read the book anyway.

Long story made at least a little shorter, it worked. The tool was applied to the end of the work piece and cranked it in using the compound. This quickly got the end face running square to the lathe centerline. I then moved it to side of the cam ring and, with gentle movements of the cross slide, began to remove the unwanted distortion and restore concentricity to both the gear and the cam ring. I reinstalled the gear to the engine and it ran smoothly..... not even any chattering.

There is a fair level of violence taking place when the cam actuates the exhaust linkage. As a result, I will eventually make this gear afresh so that I can shake the lack of "trust" I'm feeling. I'd rather invest the additional time and effort than chance more damage in the future, due to a failed spoke.

Okay...quite a long winded tale, but if you're still awake, I'll share something a bit less morbid. The tank mounts are now completed and bolted down in their final form. The square bar stock just wasn't giving me the warm fuzzies, so I'd been avoiding the final step of drilling and taping the holes to secure them. Another of those "long time experience"s thing is that when I procrastinate over something like this, for some reason, everything is not quite congealed into a final satisfying from. I've learned to let the process run its course until an idea finally surfaces that meets all the requirements. Such was the case here.

The curves were "right" but the hard lines of the bar stock were bothering me on some level. The idea finally surfaced and the solution was dead simple. I put a piece of 3/16 round stock in the mill and made up a few inches of 1/2 round brass. This formed easily and gave me a bit more grip on the tank surface while giving it all the missing curves this engine has been demanding. Once the bending, polishing and drilling was completed, the end results were what you see below.



I've still got to fabricate the filler cap and the drain that goes to the carb, but that should be only a few minutes work. The pump is in one of those "idea stews", at the moment, but is nearing its turn for my hands on attention. There is a bit of plumbing yet to be done and the electronics still have to be to fitted, but I can see light at the end of the tunnel and no trains are in sight... for now....LOL  The tank definitely now  adds a nice look to an already "interesting" machine.



Steve

Offline rleete

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #160 on: July 29, 2009, 08:12:49 PM »
I put a piece of 3/16 round stock in the mill and made up a few inches of 1/2 round brass.

Wow, can you teach me that trick?    :D


cedge, as everyone else has already stated, it's truly a unique and stunning piece.  Almost hard to believe something so pretty is actually an engine.

I'm glad you share those "damn, why did that have to happen" moments, it lets us all follow along in a more personal fashion.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #161 on: July 30, 2009, 09:34:02 AM »
Steve,

This turning out to be an amazing engine. First the water pumper and now this...  :clap:

Nice!

Eric
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Offline NickG

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #162 on: August 05, 2009, 06:12:56 PM »
Steve,

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Can't wait to see the final stages.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #163 on: August 17, 2009, 01:21:10 AM »
For those of you who have been following this thread with such enthusiasm, I've got a bit of sad news. The build is at an end. I know... I'll miss it too, but when the last part is bolted on, the build phase is pretty much at an end. There are two small 2-56 holes left to drill and tap and then all the construction is completed. I'm waiting to take those on until I'm sure a specific adjustment is in the right spot and only a running machine will tell me if it's correctly positioned.

The additions I've made since the last post haven't been large enough to warrant their own postings and the pump is due to have its own short thread, so I decided to concentrate on finishing things up. That required reworking a couple of pieces to add strength and correct a couple of items I didn't like the Duclos solutions for.

It also required a bit of wiring to incorporate a bit of modern electronics into an old style design. Below is the ignition box for the engine. John Ernhardt kindly contributed the beautifully made Amish made oak box to the project. I almost hated to put holes in it, but the electrons needed a way to get to the little engine and old style brass lug type terminals seemed a good way to let them travel.



Here are the internals of the system. They consist of 3 AA 1.5 volt alkaline batteries, a small on / off switch for them and an ignition module complete with coil from www.cncengines.com .  Roy Sholl is the proprietor and I can tell you that he couldn't possibly have been more helpful. He was available for questions and patiently answered each one even when I must have sounded like a total rube.  The kit was easy to work with and the instructions were quite clear and left no room for confusion. This little module is one powerful little trick and will throw an amazing spark, as I learned while tracking down a arcing short to ground, caused by me. Even though I've not quite gotten the engine running as of yet, it certainly isn't due to a lack of fire. 



The other item that was added since last was the cooling system. Since this is a water cooled engine some method of delivering coolant was required. The original design called for a modified cat food can which was elevated to cylinder level. I didn't think that idea would quite match where I've tried to take this project, so a whole new means of delivery was in order. I went through numerous mental designs before finally deciding to keep the pump dead simple as possible. Out the window went all kinds of ideas for eccentric straps, lever actions and such.

The winning design wound up being a spring loaded pump shaft driven by direct contact with an eccentric. The flow was a wild estimate since the darned thing still had to fit beneath the rear shaft. This space limitation finally lead me to a Hobson's choice of a 3/8 bore 3/8 stroke. You'll notice that this item was held until very late in the project, giving you some idea of how long and how many times the idea was changed, altered re-modified and scrapped resurrected and generally over cogitated. Here is a photo of what I finally did.



The "balloon" shaped dome is a water hammer column which was added to give the rigid pluming a bit of added protection from vibration. I can't stop the engine from shaking the pipes, but I didn't want the pump adding to it. The flanges are machined fit and required no gaskets although the threads going into the pump and the water jacket are treaded and required a bit of blue loctite to stop a couple of very persistent leaks..... 6 complete plumbing tear downs worth....LOL.



The brass mesh in the small tank serves as a cooling screen where water trickles down the sides and is exposed to ambient air temperatures to cool it. It is then recirculated to the pump. The copper lines were bent and shaped and then threaded with a 1/4- 28. Soft copper is an interesting metal to work with since it is soft and gummy but tends to work harden very quickly when you begin to torture it. What felt like metaling chewing gum can very suddenly become quite brittle and hard to thread.

Here is the result of the first successful test of the cooling system. I say first successful because it took a bit of trial and error to get the right design for the check (clack) valves it required. I even managed to hide them inline using the same designs as I used in the flanged joints. Once valve is locate at the tank base and the other is inside the flange that screws into the water jacket.  Look closely and you can see the water flowing onto the screen mesh.



The rest of the photos are of different angles of the engine.






I've already begun the effort to get it dialed in and early indications are that it will eventually run. I've managed to get it to produce a bit of smoke and at one point had it giving me a bit of a popping from the exhaust. I've got to get he timing and fuel mixture sorted out, but I have some local help lined up should it prove to be beyond my kin.

This has been a marvelous project and sharing it has been pure joy. You've all been extremely supportive and the enthusiasm has been gratifying. The next time you see this engine will be in the video section, once it is up and running. Thank you all for taking this trip with me. Without you peering over my shoulder there were a couple of times I might have shelved the project. The fact that you were here kept things moving along, and for that I am very appreciative.

Until the next build....
Steve
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 01:23:19 AM by cedge »

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #164 on: August 17, 2009, 02:23:18 AM »
Steve,

THANK YOU.....  :thumbup:

Sorry...... Can`t say ner more than that!  ::)

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #165 on: August 17, 2009, 02:42:19 AM »
Now that is one busy looking engine!!    :thumbup:

It'll be a treat to see it running :)




Very nice build there Steve, have fun with the timing  :smart:



Happy that you took the time to post for all of us.   :nrocks:

I think I'll go back and look at what the original looked like now, still haven't seen it.... Should be interesting?!








Ralph.


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bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #166 on: August 17, 2009, 04:22:52 AM »
Shoulders sagging, dragging myself into a dark corner to hide forever.

Steve, that is one of the nicest looking, and well made and designed small engines I have seen in a long time. A real credit to yourself in the short time you have been making engines.


John


Offline CrewCab

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #167 on: August 17, 2009, 04:53:05 AM »
Stupendous Steve, a real work of art  :beer:

Really looking forward to the video

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #168 on: August 17, 2009, 05:41:15 AM »
Very inspirational Steve...one day...maybe...that's some talent to aspire too.....  :bow:

Don't forget the video when the time comes as I think we all wish to see it running...

Well done....what more can I say........... :clap:
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Offline Spen50

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #169 on: August 17, 2009, 07:27:05 AM »
That is very impressive  :bugeye:

Offline NickG

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #170 on: August 17, 2009, 07:47:13 AM »
Steve,

It's absolutely beautiful. Hope you've got it insured! I've just read about your near disaster and I was trying to think what I would have done apart from go to bed and cry, then be in a really foul mood! It almost brought  :( to my eyes and felt sick until I read on. So glad you were able to gather yourself up, pull yourself together and think of a solution.  :ddb:  :thumbup:  :bow:  :beer:
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Bernd

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #171 on: August 17, 2009, 09:36:09 AM »
Very nice build Steve. I don't think you can call it "Duclos's Victorian Engine". It should be called "Cedge's Victorian Engine". It's no were near what Philip's engine looks like with all the mods you made.

 :bow:  BRAVO.  :bow:

The video will be the crown jewel in this build series. Can't wait to see that.

You need to take a well deserved vacation now so you can think up on what you're going to build next.  :)

Bernd
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Offline zeusrekning

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #172 on: August 17, 2009, 05:22:34 PM »
Wow man, That is amazing.  :bugeye:
I can't wait to see it run.
If you need any help with the ignition let me know, I have experience finding spark  :zap:

LOL , You just called , so I rekon I will see it sooner than expected. I better find my rubber gloves and grounding rod.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 08:35:56 PM by zeusrekning »

Offline zeusrekning

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #173 on: August 17, 2009, 09:06:18 PM »
 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Man , I got to see the jewel in person. All I can say is Mrs. Cedge is about to have another beautiful piece added to her collection. It seems Steve may lag on the posting at times but I can understand, when he gets finished he has to hand it over. LOL
OK enough picking on Steve, the engine is beautiful and I imagine when its running it will be one of those things that takes a few minutes to wrap your head around, with all that bling spinning and moving at different speeds and directions it will be an eyeful. I can't wait to see whats next.

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #174 on: August 17, 2009, 10:19:30 PM »
All the kind words are enough to make one's head spin. I'm pleased that the engine has met with such a positive reception. One never knows how things will go when starting a build log. This one has, for me, been a total mind blower.

A short update to today's efforts to get it running. John, who I mentioned earlier was gracious enough to host me and the engine today as we tried to get the timing and mixture adjustments sorted out. While we were able to get it to hit, it just wouldn't take off on its own. After a good bit of troubleshooting we discovered that the intake valve is apparently not seating properly.

Since I've lapped the valves for the 3rd time and still have some leakage, I'll be doing a bit of surgery to the heads tomorrow to install a pair of brass seats. This should make it easier to get a proper seal and hopefully a running machine. It really really tried to run today, so I'm quite optimistic about things. We tried it on Coleman fuel and Propane, both of which were "successful" but at very different mixture settings. The Coleman fuel is my choice for the time being. 

Tomorrow, the two 2-56 holes will also be drilled and I'll be adding a check valve to the fuel line to keep a nice fresh supply at the intake at all times. I'll also be attempting to modify the tank for use as a vapor carb. If I do it right, I can easily switch from aspiration to vapor or vice versa, whenever the mood strikes.

Getting closer...
Steve
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 10:21:57 PM by cedge »