The making of a Treepanning Tool

[Bernd]

The valve base thread that Darren had started involved putting a large hole in a piece of steel. I had suggested using a "tree panning" tool. I knew I had pictures of one I made. I'd say designed, but the tool has already been designed it just needs a mod to make it work for your application. So with that in mind I've started this thread of a tree panning tool I made for a specific project.

The project involves making solid mount motor plates for a guy that builds drag cars. The plate goes between the engine and transmission and is bolted to the frame. The reason for this is so that the engine doesn't twist itself out of the car on take off from the drag line. The holes are for the bolts that hold the engine and transmission together, a hole for the starter, and a hole to be able to secure the bolts of on the converter and starter ring. Very simple.

Now a small short story. The guy that was supposed to originally do them keep coming and asking me how to go about it. I knew what was up. He wanted me to design the fixture to locate the holes and then he would reap the profit. So I sat back and waited. Knowing full well he'd never be able to figure it out. My name got mentioned by another guy that I did some work for and the person that wanted the plates made came to me. When the guy that was going to make them found out he said I couldn't do it because you'd need "modern technology" to do them. Last I looked metal removal hadn't changed much. He was thinking laser or water jet to cut the shapes out. I did it with a drill press and some drills, plus a home engineered tree pan tool.

So, end of short story. Here are the pics as I made improvements to the tool. I'm not going to spend much time explaining every picture since a picture is worth 1000 words. If you have any question feel free to ask and I will try to answer them

First picture is of the Buffalo Forge Drill press I do the work on. It's been modified for a tread mill motor. I have nice variable speed.


Next two pics are of the plates I do. Two different sizes. This one has an 8" dia. hole.


Next is the larger one. It has an 14.25" hole in the center. Both this one and the one above were cut out using a tree panning tool.
 

 Another one I made same as above.


My first attempt to make the bigger hole. I used the headstock from the Sherline lathe. I thought I could mill it out. After the first broken end mill it was back to the drawing board.


I decided to use the tooling I made and use a 1/8" HSS lathe tool. The tool is in the slot with the bigger hole. It work but I broke quite a number to tools because the tool grabbed the aluminum.


Just another pic of the above from different angle. I added the 1-2-3 block in hopes of stopping chatter. Didn't work.


A better view of the cutter and it's shape.


The newer tree panning tool I made. This is version I. Front side.


Another pic of version I.


Back side showing adjustment.


Checking things out to make sure it works.


Closer look at the tool. It's not ground for clearance angles yet.


Made a nice wooden base so I wouldn't damage the table with the tool and also not scratch the aluminum.


More checking for clearances and setting tool to the dia. I need.


My new method of rough cutting the opening. Boy was this tough to do, even with a course blade.


Here are the results. Numerous broken blades and sore hands from hanging on to the saw. But I 'gotter 'er done.


It worked to some extend but would get hung up easily.


Here is the final version. It uses an 1/8" HSS lathe tool and is straight up and down. Works pretty good, but occasionally still jambs up once in a while. What helps is the hand wheel feed the drill press has. They sure made them nice back then.


I hope somebody can get some ideas from this and put it to good practice. I'm not an expert on this method of cutting, but I did learn a lot making the tooling.

Got questions? Ask away.

Regards,
Bernd

[sbwhart]

Hi Bernd

That's a bit of a beast of a treepanner, but your shear persistance paid off,  too many people tend to give up at the first attempt, they don't realise that you have to keep building on each sucessive try until you get it right.

I've built quite a reputation at work for doing things that people have said:- can't be done:- I've gone out and done it, what you need more than anything is the curage to fail.

Have Fun
 
Stew

[Rog02]

Bernd?

While you were doing that I couldn't help but wonder, "WHY?"  Torque plates (the part you are making) are common as dirt and there are countless shops that can and do fab them. 

Since I do this sort of fabrication work for a living (and have for the past 40 years), I have learned that some things are best sent to the shops that already have the stuff to do it with. 

The local cut shop will waterjet a torque plate for $45 USD if you supply the material or they can supply the blank if needed.  My cut shop keeps the common ones on file in their database and should I need something out of the ordinary, I just do a 2-D CAD drawing of what I need and send them the file which they use to program the controller.  Turn around times vary somewhat depending on what the available machine schedule is.  Normally, I get my part within one day but have had to wait 3 days once when they had an order for a few thousand parts in que ahead of me.



By The Way, the correct term is trepanning.

Trepanning:
Definition: 
A type of boring where an annular cut is made into a solid material with the coincidental formation of a plug or solid cylinder.
http://metals.about.com/library/bldef-Trepanning.htm

"Life is too short to struggle needlessly" (Racin' Jason 2004)

[Bernd]

Thanks for the encouraging words Stew.

I couldn't let this challenge go. I needed to proof to myself and the other guys it could be done at home with minimum tooling.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Bernd?

While you were doing that I couldn't help but wonder, "WHY?"  Torque plates (the part you are making) are common as dirt and there are countless shops that can and do fab them. 

WHY? One word, "money". I make a bit on the side for buying tooling and they get "custom made" plates. I forgot to mention that.

I checked out the catalogs on the net to see how much a standard plate costs. For a 1/4" thick motor plate the average was around $100.00 to $120.00 per plate.

Yes they could get a shop with a water jet to do it and I think they checked into it, but again the word "money' came to the for front. They would need to either have a large run to make it pay or pay high dollars for one or two custom plates. I have given them an alternative and cheaper way of getting what they want. Plus they can chanage the design and not get slapped with a high charge for an engineering change. They aslo only need about 8 to 12 plates a year.

The local cut shop will waterjet a torque plate for $45 USD if you supply the material or they can supply the blank if needed.

That sounds pretty cheap. They tried to get the material and were quoted around $1,000.00 for a 4" X 8" 1/4" thick sheet of aluminum. I could get it for half price through some connections with the supplier.

So basically it boils down to "bucks" and them having the ability to change design and not get charged for an engineering change.

By The Way, the correct term is trepanning.

Trepanning:
Definition: 
A type of boring where an annular cut is made into a solid material with the coincidental formation of a plug or solid cylinder.
http://metals.about.com/library/bldef-Trepanning.htm

"Life is too short to struggle needlessly" (Racin' Jason 2004)

I thought it didn't look right. My fault for not looking in to it further. Thanks for the correction and the terminology.

Notice I changed the heading so it's spelled right.

Bernd

[Darren]

That's impressive Bernd, nice drill press too....

[Bernd]

Thanks Darren.

Drill press cost me $100. It's what they call a #21. Meaning it is 10.5" from center to column. It had a 3 phase motor on it. The only thing wrong with is the miter gears at the top. One has one tooth missing the other 2 teeth. When I get the time I'm going to fix those with some false teeth.

Here's a pic of the gears.


Here's another of it still in the garage.


I started a web page explaining how I added the tread mill motor to it but never got the page done. Need to finish that one day.

Bernd

[Darren]

Are you sure on those prices for water jetting Roger?
I realise we are in two different continents, but even so.
Here's some experiences on this side of the pond

I've had a lot of water jetting done over the last 3 yrs and I've never found it to be cheap. Effective and quick yes, finish is ok depending on what you require but I always had a lot of work to do to finish my parts.

My costs are £120 = VAT/tax (about $250) an hour with a minimum charge of one hour just for the machine time alone. So a one off gets kinda expensive.
Then there is the CAD work to pay for. Thankfully I can do that myself.

But if you want 1,000s or even 100s of 1000's of items cut it's deff the way to go.

[Rog02]

Yep I am sure!   

Of course what I did not mention is that I have been racing with guy for most of my life and we trade some work from time to time.  He does enough torque plates he has the bolt patterns set up in "blocks" ready to be inserted into designs.  I don't know what he would charge a "walk in" but I called him cause I haven't spoken with him in some time.  He informed me he had a new "toy".  A bright, shiny, brand spanking new laser table!  I asked him how much extra that would cost and he said "No more that waterjetting and usually less. No "washout" and basically no kerf clearances." 

A lot of shops will shoot out what we refer to as PIA (Pain In A$$) bids just to get rid of the hobbyists.  They will price something way to high just so they won't have to mess with it and if they do get the job they will make enough money to overcome the inconvenience.

Waterjet machines are quickly becoming surplus items  as lasers are taking over.  They surface on surplus auction from time to time for short money, but be advised that the controllers are often obsolete and upgrades are expensive.

With the proliferation of free CAD programs floating around the internet there is no reason to not have one and most come with reasonable tutorials to get you started.  CAD is a basic skill these days and required for most machine shop related employment.

I do my CAD work in IntelliCad as I dumped my subscription to AutoDesk after they couldn't fix their update and expected me to pay them to fix a problem that was a defect in their product. 

Yep I had all the brackets, gussets, and other miscellaneous parts cut for the helicopter lasered out.  I could spec a hole and hold tolerance to a +/- .001".  Weld ready parts at that (plasma needs to have the oxides knocked off prior to welding to prevent porosity problems).  Waste material is kept to a minimum by using a "cut optimizer" program or brushing up on your "Ascher Tiling".

I would suggest you shop your work a bit.  Sounds like you are getting the PIA rate.  With the economy slowing down, as it has I am seeing quotes that 1/3 to 1/2 of what they were a few months ago.  I refuse any bid that comes with a minimum time charge attached!  I pay for actual set up and cut time.

Of course I have been at this for a long time and have a hard ass reputation and the shops I do business with, understand I ain't a hobbyist.

[Tinkering_Guy]

[Coming to this thread years later, wanting to make concentric gimbal rings..]

Unfortunately, the images in the base topic appear to have bit-rotted away.  Or am I just not looking at them correctly? :-)

[DavidA]

I also don't see any pictures.

But I'm intrigued by this...

..They tried to get the material and were quoted around $1,000.00 for a 4" X 8" 1/4" thick sheet of aluminum...

4 inch X 8 inch by i/4 inch thick. And it cost $1000.

What is so special about this material ?

Dave.