Banjo Build

[S. Heslop]

Buffed nuts. There's still some scratches on the sides of them from where I gripped the hex bar with the lathe chuck. I think to remove that properly I should've gave the 6 sides a quick rub on some emery cloth. But alas~


Lined their tray with felt to hopefully protect them a bit. Not that it matters too much if they get scratched. A few of them are already a bit mangled from slipping off the buffing wheel and getting pushed into the rotating drill chuck. They also have a bit of scub left on them but i'm saving removing that for when i'm about to actually install them. I don't think it'll do any harm being left on till then.

Still waiting to get a call about some metal arriving in stock at a place to make the shoes. I hope they haven't forgotten about me! In the mean time I might start working on the neck.

[vtsteam]

They look dang purty!   

[S. Heslop]

Thanks. I wish I wasn't lazy and took some before and after pics of the red and blue buffing compounds. Because the red makes them shiny, and I was thinking of stopping at that point and decided to buff it with the blue mostly to get the bulk of the grease off. Then I noticed that it does enshine them further. It's funny that it's all relative but I thought they were real shiny with just the red.

I think I now understand how people get obsessive over finishing.

[micktoon]

 :proj:hi Simon, they look the dogs bollocks to me  , I thought you gave up and bought some when I saw the top photo 
 Cheers Mick

[S. Heslop]

:proj:hi Simon, they look the dogs bollocks to me  , I thought you gave up and bought some when I saw the top photo 
 Cheers Mick

I'm glad I decided to buff them properly instead of doing a quick rub with brasso like last time.

Also sod wood. I got a bit of meranti, 45x95mm, and in my plans I had it drawn up as 55x95 which was just big enough to make the banjo neck from. Turns out though that I was assuming i'd be able to get a bit of contrasting wood (maybe maple) at some point to make up the extra width, which i'd forgotten about. So I've been spending a while trying to think of how I can make use of this wood by itself but it might just be too narrow to do anything with, mostly due to the whole grain thing.

So I guess the neck is now postponed too due to material shortages too. The wood is also about as far from quartersawn as you can get, with the gain running diagonal. It seems to be a fairly stable wood besides that though so I think when I do laminate the neck i'll just arrange it so the grain is mirrored. I suppose I could try working on the truss rod in the meantime.

[vtsteam]

Wish you were closer Simon. I could give you some hard and soft maple, cherry, black and yellow birch, beech, ash, basswood (lime), red oak, or white pine for your banjo, since they all grow here. I imagine shipping is prohibitive. Most hardwoods are about 4 pounds (2 kg) a board foot (300x300x25 mm).

[S. Heslop]

Wish you were closer Simon. I could give you some hard and soft maple, cherry, black and yellow birch, beech, ash, basswood (lime), red oak, or white pine for your banjo, since they all grow here. I imagine shipping is prohibitive. Most hardwoods are about 4 pounds (2 kg) a board foot (300x300x25 mm).

From what I read online, Canada seems to be wood paradise. I don't think there's enough people interested in woodworking over here for many places to stock non construction lumber.

Started on the truss rod. I'm going for this style of rod since it seemed easiest to make.



6x12 brass was cut off.


And filed close enough to square.


And drilled. I got it square by just butting it against the drill bit in the vise. This vise is terrible and came with one of those things that're supposed to turn your hand drill into a drill press, which I got on offer to make a tapping stand out of. I was deathly afraid of breaking taps at one point since you hear alot of stories, but it's something i've yet to suffer. Anyways I keep thinking I should get a better drill press vise some day, but I also keep telling myself that a milling machine (that i'm totally definitely going to get some day) would make it redundant.


And that's them finished. I had to tap from both ends since my tap was just barely too short, but left enough of a faint tap to get it lined up from the other side. One block has a 4mm hole and i'll secure the rod with a couple of nuts most likely. The real truss rods use a left hand thread to get the thing together, but I don't have any left hand taps or dies.

And now i'm back to having nothing to do. I guess I might start figuring out how i'm going to make the tailpiece. I've made simple ones in the past but for this I thought i'd try something a bit more fancy.

[S. Heslop]

I just remembered while riding the bus that I have a piece of a (what I assume to be) walnut counter top, about 22mm thick. I can laminate the neck using that. I've got some sort of lung infection though so the last thing I should be doing is breathing sawdust, even with a mask some gets through.

The walnut and meranti look kinda similar though, so it's gonna be a silly looking neck, but I can live with that.

I'm also reading up on making rasps so if I get the neck laminated before starting that it'll give the wood time to stabilize.

[S. Heslop]

Split boards and tidied them up.


At 52mm it's about wide enough for a neck, but will need some extending at the peghead end, also there's some gaps and the jointing isn't perfect since my jointer sucks. It's not glued yet.

[S. Heslop]

Got the neck blank glued and trued. Took me a while since i'm still recovering from that lung infection.


Jesus Christ I shouldn't be wearing this shirt on film.


I'd spent a while fiddling with that thicknesser/ planer to get it cutting a bit better. Tightening up the chain in the depth adjustment thing fixed the wobbly surface it was producing. The two surfaces on the jointer part are both fairly heavily dished, and i'd probably need to scrape them to get them flat. But despite them being crooked and all over the place they seem to cut a reasonably flat surface.


Wish i'd bothered to fiddle with the thing before cutting the boards to glue together though. There's hellacious gaps all over as a result. I'm hoping there's less gaps in the middle, as that'll be on the bottom of the neck. This top surface is gonna be covered by a fingerboard anyways, as well as routed out for a truss rod.



The whole neck skew thing has been confusing me but I think i've figured it out. From what i've read, you want to build the neck like an ordinary neck with the neck center line going through the middle of the peghead at the top. Then you mount it at an angle so that the third string goes through the center line of the banjo. Or something. I figure that means you want to put the truss rod through the neck center line rather than the 'true' centerline (the path of the third string).

I think what makes it hard to understand is that it's hard for people to explain without it sounding like a load of garbage like the above paragraph.


The truss rod doesn't leave alot of material in the top of the neck though. There's about 3.5mm from the corner of the truss rod channel to the edge of the neck. There's also going to be more material removed since i'm going for a tunneled 5th string. I might maybe make the neck a bit chunkier.


I watched a bunch of Czech Pat a Mat cartoons while 'off sick'. They never got broadcast in the UK, which is a shame, because they're really good!

t=49m57s

[DMIOM]

........
I watched a bunch of Czech Pat a Mat cartoons while 'off sick'. They never got broadcast in the UK, which is a shame, because they're really good!

t=49m57s

Oh you so-and-so .   .... those look great, as if there wasn't enough to watch already!   

[S. Heslop]

So I got a spokeshave at the boot sale on Sunday. It's a pretty hastily assembled looking thing, which is probably why the seller wanted rid of it despite it looking brand new and boxed. I was thinking about how I might flatten the face the blade rests on (I already had a quick go at it with a file). The obvious way would be to spot and scrape it, but they used an unfortunate choice of paint colour.


The other problem is sort of visible here, with the closer thread being pitched higher upwards and getting in the way of the blade being held flat. I was gonna ask for advise on what to do, but I think I might make a screw to fit the hole and loctite it in place, then drill and tap that for a thread size smaller, and make a sort of stepped stud to go into it.

Edit: Looking at it further, with the adjusting thumb screws on they prevent the blade from contacting the whole of that face too. Wonder if it's a cock-up with the design in general or if it's only supposed to contact the front of the slot. I also appreciate that the steel of the blade is soft enough that the screw in the frog has put some healthy dents into it.

It's obviously junk but I was hoping I might be able to make something of it.

[vtsteam]

I have a spokeshave bought decades ago that never worked, and I wonder if they are related. I've always since used a drawknife or a plane, or both. I like a drawknife.

[S. Heslop]

Wonder if I could make a draw knife from an old file...

I've got a few old files and I keep trying to think of uses for them. Tried making a scraper from one but I don't think the file steel holds an edge too well when scraping steel or cast iron.

I'm also still considering making some rasps from the old files, perhaps only to spite that video that claimed it takes two years to learn the intricate art of hitting a chisel with a hammer.

[vtsteam]

If the file was tool steel all the way through instead of case hardened, I'm sure you could make a very good drawknife from one. You'd want a good size file, like one of the 14" s I have, and the 5/16" thickness would be good -- better than the 1/4".

You'd need a second tang maybe welded on, or brazed. I guess you could also cut it out of the file, but that would be kind of a waste of good material, and shorten the drawknife. I like a good size one so you clear your hands on the work. A big drawknife can do small work by angling it while cutting. Never needed a smaller one.

The one I've used for 40 years has USN engraved in it -- I'm assuming navy. It's a fantastic tool. I've tried modern woodworking tool company drawknives and there is no comparison. It's shaped just right, perfectly proportioned for the work. Others I've tried are clumsy -- I've tried to teach a few people using those, and when we switch the difference is obvious..

If you get to the point where you want to make one, I can measure this one up and post some photos if you want. Might as well make it shaped well.

I'd love to see you make a rasp, and I bet after two years they do get better, but I bet they also work first time well enough to be happy to have made one! 

[S. Heslop]

I'd very much appreciate some photos. I was looking on google image search and saw all kinds of funny shapes for drawknives and it did confuse me.

Also with skill thing... it's silly but I take that sort of thing personally. A few years ago I took it all serious, and really believed that alot of these things were inaccessible to mere mortals like me. At least not without 2 years of training under a Master Artisan. So it always bothers me when that sort of stuff crops up.

[vtsteam]

Okay, Simon, I'll take some photos tomorrow in good light. Maybe even if I get a chance this next week do a very short video of using it -- they really work well.

Maybe I'll take a photo of the spokeshave I have and never used after the first few tries! It looks very similar to yours! 

[S. Heslop]

I got the spoke shave working a bit better. Filed the paint off then scraped it a bit. Not a perfect scraping job i've got contact along the front of the blade. I now look like this.




I also solved the stud problem by just removing the studs. It's easier to adjust it by tapping the top of the blade with a hammer when its snugged up a bit.

[vtsteam]

 

[S. Heslop]

Trying to anneal the files. Be able to see if it worked in a few hours I suppose.


Using Rob Wilson's fire bricks and John Mill's burner. Didn't take long for them to glow. In all honesty I almost forgot I had both of these. I rediscovered the fire bricks in the corner of the garage a week ago where i'd stored them so neatly that they were near invisible.


I probably would've been best just blocking the ends of the 'forge' off, but I didn't fancy my chances of the heat soaking through the bricks and doing a number on the patio furniture. So I stuck them in the fire.

Continuing the theme of not thinking ahead I also forgot to get anything to grab the files with. Burned my fingertips through the welding gauntlets.

[vtsteam]

Simon I posted my drawknife pics in "Tools":

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10747.0.html

[S. Heslop]

The files softened. I was able to file them with another file.


Finger for scale, they're pretty tiny teeth. I think a more solid support (there's a table leg underneath this vise but I cut it too short, and it's supported by a wedge that tends to work loose) and a bigger hammer I should be able to get bigger teeth. Not sure how happy this high speed steel will be getting whacked though. Wish I remembered to look for some wee cold chisels at the boot sale.


I sort of assumed you'd want the teeth to lean forwards a bit so they bite the wood, here they're all over the place.


Did a little test and it seemed to cut this walnut fairly okay.

I've got two softened files and now i've got to decide which one I want to turn into a curved rasp. I've got some other dull ones I could use too, but the teeth on them are so mighty that it'd take alot of effort to grind them off.

This is all the easy part though. I've gotta find a good place to keep that compressor, then pressure test it to reassure myself that it won't detonate, then start fussing about a sand blasting setup.

The other thing i'm thinking about is how i'd best go about preventing the teeth from burning off when I harden it. I was thinking about perhaps dipping them in plaster of paris, but then that'd probably rust them. Maybe I could try something like cladding them in window putty, which as far as I know is just linseed oil and chalk. Alternately I wonder how well a heavily reducing flame would prevent the teeth from burning.


Edit: I found a photo of some rasp punches, as the guy called them, that i'm putting here mostly so I can find it easier.

[vtsteam]

Cool Simon!

Well, those are some of the questions I was having, too about old ways of protecting the teeth while hardening. Looks like immersion in a molten table salt bath is the way it's done, now. Linseed oil will burn up. Plaster of Paris might work for the heating phase, but plunging to harden would maybe be too slow with an insulating layer of poP. Lautard in the Machinist Bedside Reader mentions using hand soap rubbed on cutters to prevent scale when heat treating. I've done that and it seemed to work fairly well. Heating the file as much as possible without oxygen would help prevent burning and scale, so burying in hot embers might help as opposed to a burner/blower in air. Maybe a rich torch flame would hep some. Just all maybes, here.

[S. Heslop]

Got the forge set up and ended up using it right away. Picked a helluva day to do it because it's pretty hot.


Made a... swaging block I think you'd call it? Ground the bulk material out with an angle grinder and filed the rest to get a good shape.


It took a while to get the forge working. I kept rearranging the bricks (not a good idea when they're glowing hot!) to get a good shape, and this one seemed to work well for heating the whole thing up at once. It probably also just got better as the bricks got hotter.


The shape looks pretty good in this photo, but from the side it kept curling up. It was also twisting a bit which was spooking me since I had no idea how to try correcting that. As it's finished, i've got the top of it more or less flat I think. Or flat enough to finish up with a grinding. But the bottom of the file, towards the tang, is still a bit curly. I don't think it'll matter too much but it looks a bit silly.

I had problems with the brick barbeque I was doing this on falling apart from the hammer blows. Plus I gave myself a few burns, and singed a bunch of my hair off. And I wasn't too excited about having to heat the entire file up instead of just heating the areas i'm gonna shape. Ideally I probably should've shaped the forge to have a slot the file could pass through, but with the thing hot I couldn't rearrange it so heavily.

I also stuck another big rasp in with the file so hopefully that'll soften too. I was intending to cover it with bar soap to test that idea but I was so busy juggling all the problems I just forgot.

[S. Heslop]

You can see the bendyness here. It also seems to have developed a sideways bend while cooling too.



I was thinking about hitting it with a hammer to straighten it out, but I think there's enough of a straight section to be useful. I can just pretend its some sort of exotic rasp for specialist work.

Had a go at smoothing it. I'm having the same problem I had with the helmet, where I can't find a way to remove material fast while grinding. I think it's mostly just the belts i'm using, but i've tried a few brands of belts and not found one that doesn't go blunt very quick. Maybe because they're intended for use with wood.

As a result, there's a bit of a dip inwards at the tip as well as some erosion pitting from the flame that would take alot of effort to grind out. Actually, thinking about it, the steel is soft enough to file...