Tramming from a different prospective (solid column mini mill)

[rdsii64]

 As I was searching for the best way to go about squaring my mill, (I just got it)
I began to see comments stating that shimming reduces the stability of a machine that already isn't as stable as it should be because it only ways 165 pounds. That got me to thinking. What if instead of shimming the base to tram the column to the table, you put your work piece in the vice, then shim the vise, to tram the column to the work piece? this seems like it would work ( take that with a grain of salt I'm the new guy). The only draw back I can see is you would have to "re-tram" every time you had to move the piece.
Does this seem reasonable or just drivel from the new guy.

[John Rudd]

The general consensus is to tram the mill not the work piece...

[Stilldrillin]

The general consensus is to tram the mill not the work piece...

He's right, you know! 

Get the column square to the table, via the large nut at the rear. This will be quite near enough, to get you started.

Don't try to emulate the stories of super accurate alignment. The whole machine flexes, in use......

Good luck! 

David D

[rdsii64]

The general consensus is to tram the mill not the work piece...

He's right, you know! 

Get the column square to the table, via the large nut at the rear. This will be quite near enough, to get you started.

Don't try to emulate the stories of super accurate alignment. The whole machine flexes, in use......

Good luck! 

David D

I don't have the nut in the back. My mill is the solid column version it doesn't tilt

[Stilldrillin]

I don't have the nut in the back. My mill is the solid column version it doesn't tilt

Ah! That changes things...... 

Drinks can alloy, is your friend........ 

Frankly, I would expect it to be plenty close enough, now, for your needs.

I would say. Use it, enjoy it. Then see where you can improve things, as your experience and confidence grows.

David D

[greenie]

Ah! That changes things...... 

Drinks can alloy, is your friend........ 

Frankly, I would expect it to be plenty close enough, now, for your needs.

I would say. Use it, enjoy it. Then see where you can improve things, as your experience and confidence grows.

David D

How do you know if it's out of tram, if you haven't even used it ?

Better start to do a few things with it, and if it's way out of tram, then, and only then, start to muck about with it.

As David has stated, it will be about as 'close as #uck is to swearing' straight from the box.

Think you have read far too much, and started to believe all the stuff that's spread around on the web by a lot of armchair experts, so why not use it and find out, before mucking around with something that might be real close anyway.

regards  Greenie

[John Rudd]

Ah! That changes things...... 

Drinks can alloy, is your friend........ 

Frankly, I would expect it to be plenty close enough, now, for your needs.


David D

How do you know if it's out of tram, if you haven't even used it ?



As David has stated, it will be about as 'close as #uck is to swearing' straight from the box.

Think you have read far too much, and started to believe all the stuff that's spread around on the web by a lot of armchair experts, so why not use it and find out, before mucking around with something that might be real close anyway.

regards  Greenie

He's right too.....I bought a Chester Eagle 30 mill....round solid column....haven't even touched anything on it since the day I bought it many years ago.....I never even checked the tram on it coz when it cuts it's near enough for farm work, as they say...
So, try it, see what the finish is like then decide on what to do.....

[Stilldrillin]

Come to think about it..........

During 34 years of making a living, on grown up machines. I never trammed a mill. 

Until I set up my mini mill, several years after retirement......

I never check it's alignment. As it never gives me cause to........ 

David D

[RussellT]

If you set it up so the column is trammed to the workpiece then the effect is not the same.  The objective of tramming is to set it up so that the column is square to the slideway.  The top of the table is convenient to use.

If you shimmed the vice, the workpiece would be square to the column, but it might change height as you moved it left and right.

However as others have said it's worth trying it first, especially as it's not supposed to need adjusting.

Russell

[lordedmond]

To the OP

what are your requirements for truth in the workpiece ?

if you require 0.001 mm then I am afraid you have bought the wrong machine you need one of these but a big wallet to buy and equip
http://www.lathes.co.uk/sixis/

these are as been said a cheaper flexible mill but do try it, as is it may well be within your tolerance needs  if its for hobby use remember we are not making parts for NASA

sorry for the rant but I am afraid you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear

yes I do have a SX3 mill and it performs to my required level but I have done some work on the spindle but the rest is as supplied mine is a tilt head so it needs the head tramming as I move it for some jobs but the the column is within 0.01 over 200 mm both ways.

please do not confuse column alignment and quill alignment they are two distinct things and are adjusted in a totally different way , also they are tested for truth differently as well

Stuart

[greenie]

Come to think about it..........

During 34 years of making a living, on grown up machines. I never trammed a mill. 

David D

Hmm, dunno what sort of a workshop you were in, but the joints I happened to frequent, required me to spin the head at very odd angles with some jobs, or, if there was a bit of a boo-boo on my behalf -----------------------s-o-o-o-o, do the tram again.
Some jobs even required I tram it before I started, as the tolerance on the drawings were a tad on the tight side.
With a couple of different operators using the same machines, you could never quite trust the way the other fella left the gear.

Most of the mills I had to operate over the years were of the same sloppy design as the Bridgeport, and I soon discovered it was easier to lower the quill and tram that, by raising and lowering the table, do the X axis first, then go for the Y axis, much quicker and believe it or not, a lot easier that trying to spin the quill and tram the table in the normal fashion.

You could get the head absolutely spot on to the table, each time you trammed the quill.


regards  greenie 

[Stilldrillin]

Never worked a Bridgeport.

The Old Archdale, and much newer (back then), Heckert. Both had a taper pin, to locate the head after any angle work.

In those days, I made capel blocks, links etc. For all the NCB rope/ cage systems. Made much of the rope's metalwork, when sinking the Selby Coalfield.

My favourite 8" Sanvic face mill, never complained it was out of wack......

A Takisawa machining centre took over, when I made rock drilling equipment.

David D

[vtsteam]

Both had a taper pin, to locate the head after any angle work.

Somebody must have thought, what's good for the collet is good for the head.

[rdsii64]

To the OP

what are your requirements for truth in the workpiece ?

if you require 0.001 mm then I am afraid you have bought the wrong machine you need one of these but a big wallet to buy and equip
http://www.lathes.co.uk/sixis/

these are as been said a cheaper flexible mill but do try it, as is it may well be within your tolerance needs  if its for hobby use remember we are not making parts for NASA



sorry for the rant but I am afraid you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear

yes I do have a SX3 mill and it performs to my required level but I have done some work on the spindle but the rest is as supplied mine is a tilt head so it needs the head tramming as I move it for some jobs but the the column is within 0.01 over 200 mm both ways.

please do not confuse column alignment and quill alignment they are two distinct things and are adjusted in a totally different way , also they are tested for truth differently as well

Stuart

I'm not sure since I haven't made anything with it yet. I'm going to guess I won't need anywhere near .001

[dbs]

I too have a mini mill with fixed column and while you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear you can try.  My mill was out of square by about 33 thousands left to right and about 18 thousands front to back.  That made a very noticeable difference in longer parts and leads me to believe the quality control in the mill factory isn't all that great.  A fly cut on a part two or three inches in width wouldn't amount to much but when I tried to clean up the surface of a 10 inch tooling plate it was disappointing.  I say see just how far out the head is and if it's more than your work can stand give tramming a try.  Good luck to you.  Dave

[velocette]

Hi
This subject is an on going discussion across many forums the best way is to look at the very varied advice given by all means.
Diagnoses are obtained by you asking questions of what do I require this machine to do and to what accuracy is required of the finished product.
Is the machine capable of achieving the required results, if not then why not.
Are the gibs-screws on X Y and Z travel properly adjusted if not the attend to this first. No point in tramming until everything has the minimum amount of play.
Get this far and put the mill to work and gain experience in operating it and check the resulting work piece is it satisfactory or not.
Keep asking questions of yourself and ask others for advice by supplying them with as much relevant information as possible about what you need to solve the problem.
Good luck with your machining you have started on a rewarding hobby.
Keep asking and posting as all "Mad Modders" take a keen interest in what is being done in the workshops of others and can supply a wealth of help and information.
 Eric