Author Topic: CNC router table...  (Read 19331 times)

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
CNC router table...
« on: January 08, 2015, 05:16:51 PM »
I have put my two cylinder atmospheric engine aside until the cooler weather and started on a project to build a CNC router table.

The table is quite big, about 900 x 2000mm. It will be that size because that is the size of the warehouse racking components I was given.

I have a few steppers and all the control equipment but I do worry that X axis will need a lot of drive however I have received a driver for 3 phase steppers which I have tested with a Fisher and Paykel washing machine motor. 

This is what the motor looks like..



Testing with EMC2 and a 36 volt power supply the motor turns with enormous torque but quite slow to accelerate and a top speed of, estimated, less than 200 rpm.  The motor has only 42 steps which would be rather coarse for any direct drive but maybe it will be usable with the endless chain concept I posted at http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linear-and-rotary-motion/254308-cable-chain-belt-drive-concept-long-axis.html

From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline dsquire

  • In Memoriam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2275
  • Country: ca
  • Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 06:51:20 PM »
Hi John

I have some of that cooler weather that you are waiting for. Send me up a container of hot air and I will fill it up with nice Cold Arctic Air and return it. That should be enought to keep the shed bearable. 
:lol: :lol:

Keep us posted on MadModder John as I'm sure you will find a good amount of interest with your cable/chain/belt drive concept.

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 07:11:14 PM »
Another interesting mad mod, John! Looking forward to it. :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:


Don, I think you sent your weather down here by mistake.........  :)
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Country: us
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 07:17:16 PM »
John,

Are you planning for a rigid gantry and a moving table or the other way around?

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 09:29:22 PM »
Eric, fixed table and moving gantry.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Country: us
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 11:56:19 PM »
Eric, fixed table and moving gantry.

Are you going to use one stepper to move the whole gantry or two?

I have been gather the parts to do a router. (8020!). Been debating back and forth if I want to do a fixed or moving gantry. Decided on a fixed gantry for the sole purpose of rigidity. With the 8020 I figured it would be stiffer.

I will definitely be watching what you do!

What will you be using for controller?

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2015, 12:32:17 AM »
Eric, I will be using the one washing machine motor to move the gantry and a 'cats cradle' arrangement to discourage any wracking.  I shudder at the thought of the cost of a 2 metre acme feed screw hence the idea of the endless chain drive.

My plan is to locate one end of the gantry with skate bearings around four sides of a square steel side rail (30x50mm rhs) but the other end of the gantry will just have a wheel running along the top of the rail on that side.  Time will tell if this will be adequate for router service.

I have a Linux installation of EMC2 but I am yet to learn anything about the other software that will be required to do anything useful.

From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2015, 11:48:20 AM »
John, I've used LinuxCNC (EMC2) with a moving gantry style mill, and like it.

There are lots of choices for designing and producing the G-code, but one free combo that works well on a Linux platform (through WINE) is the old Google Sketchup 7 or 8 in combination with the Phlatboyz Phlatscript. I've used all three together, and they are all no-cost software.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2015, 02:45:33 PM »
Thanks Vsteam,  I might have to get back to you when I am further along on this little 'adventure'.  Right now  Stepcon software is crashing while I am trying to 'tune' these motors which I hope is not a deeper problem with hardware suitability.  The metal supply shop will be open again on Monday and I will be able to get started on making the sliding components for the X axis.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2015, 03:35:49 PM »
John, Can you say how stepconf is crashing?

Is there an error message or does it close silently?

And which version of  LinuxCNC are you trying out?

If it crashes silently, can you open a terminal and run it from there?

When you do that there should be some error messages displayed.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2015, 10:39:42 PM »
Hi, Stepconf crashes with a black screen and black and white 'piano keys' over the top quarter of the screen, then a bit of coloured disturbances and back to a black screen.  I will have to find how to open a terminal and report back! :coffee:

[LATER]

I choose 'Applications' and opened a terminal and entered 'stemconf' at the prompt.  The program opened normally and crashed normally too!  I was left with the 'piano keys' flashing about every two seconds and otherwise a black screen.  Obviously I could not see the terminal window... :(



[LATER STILL]  I changed the printer port definition and no more 'piano keys',  not after several minutes of messing around with Stepconf.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 01:23:11 AM by John Hill »
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 03:57:33 AM »
Now that Stepconf is apparently stable I can continue trying to 'tune' this washing machine motor.

The 3 phase driver (the piece of hardware)  has DIP switches to set 'steps per revolution', obviously these are micro steps as they range to many thousands starting from 400, presumably this is intended for a 200 step motor. Now I cant see that this hardware knows, or needs to know, the number of steps in the motor which in the case of the washing machine motor is only 42.

Stepconf requires me to set 'Driver Microstepping',  but why?   Surely a 'pulse' signal from the break out board to the stepper controller hardware is one pulse per motor step? 


There is obviously much for me to learn!!!!
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 12:30:52 PM »
John, steppers can have their coils essentially "rearranged" electrically and the pulses phased to allow micro stepping. It all depends on how many coil wires you have coming out of your motor. There are some advantages to microstepping, even though it would sometimes seem to be unnecessarily fine control of the machine's drive.

Here's one discussion of pros and cons:

http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities

I'm not sure that one has it completely right. Microstepping can allow the simulation of near sinusoidal waveforms to the stepper motor, instead of square waves. And that is the reason for the reduction of noise and resonance -- those negative factors can hurt a stepper's ultimate performance as much as the necessary reduction in torque he talks about.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2015, 01:56:31 PM »
Thanks, that was a very interesting page to read with my morning coffee.

These washing machine motors have a lot of 'cogging', i.e. considerable reluctance to move from one position to the next,  so I assume only very low stepping will be possible.

Fortunately each of the 42 stator coils is readily accessable and here is an example of the level of modification possible...

....where someone is seeking just the right characteristics for his windmill alternator.

Standard configuration is 3 phases where each phase is 14 coils in series,  I have modified mine so that each phase is two strings of 7 in parallel which will have reduced the inductance and the voltage.  My best theory is that I should go further but 7 is not an easy number to divide,  I could make strings of three which would leave three coils unused or I could go the whole hog  and make each phase 14 coils in parallel.

14 coils in parallel would surely have very low inductance which does sound like an ideal characteristic for a stepper coil.  Presumably the stepper driver could handle the sudden current but the power supply might be a different matter!
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 02:12:09 AM »
I got the washing machine stepper going good today although it has taken me a couple of days to find the right number of steps per revolution. I finally found that 112 is the correct figure to set in Stepconf.  This figure of course is 8 times the number of coils.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2015, 08:13:26 AM »
Sounds very good. That's not so far from the usual 200. I'm sure the torque must be be high, and I bet electrical efficiency is good, too.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2015, 08:24:08 AM »
John have you settled on a max current yet?

That's the most critical figure for a stepper motor. Too high and it kills the magnets, so there's always a definite figure in the motor rating.

Voltage supply to the driver, on the other hand is frequently much more than the original stepper motor rating in order to increase speed. But the driver always keeps the current at or below spec.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2015, 03:19:30 PM »
Hi Steve,

You say too much current kills the magnets, is that due to heating?  I have not yet tried to play with the current , I think it is set for 4 amps right now,  the coils are 0.6mm, in one motor the coils are series parallel so only 2 amps for them.

Or is damage done by excessive field strength scrambling the magnets?  These are ferrite magnets but there are folks who have converted them to neo magnets to get more output when used as wind generators.

I have a few spares on hand! :med:

I posted a question at http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/16-stepconf-wizard/28763-stepconf-question-from-a-newbie where 'Andy' is going to great pains to assure me this is not a stepper motor!  Ha ha, I dont think that is the spirit of MadModders! :lol:

One of the relics in my shed is a pedal generator I made years ago using one of these motors.  The  F@P motor of course is really too big for human scale operation so I took my saw and removed 24 stator coils leaving just 18!  It worked well for the pedal generator producing 100watts at average human input from the attached exercise bicycle.  This also works well as a stepper,  it has a much higher maximum speed than the unmodified motors and still produces useful torque.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2015, 06:56:18 PM »
John, I think it's the heating, so it should be possible to gradually work out what "feels" right. I think when they're just holding they put out as much heat as running. I have a few stepper motors that seem to run pretty hot, but seem to be within nameplate spec. I also think mounting them on metal probably acts as a heat sink somewhat, and the ones I have that run hot are mounted on plywood. It's been a few years, and they seem to still run as strong as they did. But I don't us them often.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2015, 07:00:09 PM »
I posted a question at http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/16-stepconf-wizard/28763-stepconf-question-from-a-newbie where 'Andy' is going to great pains to assure me this is not a stepper motor!  Ha ha, I dont think that is the spirit of MadModders! :lol:


Where's their spirit of adventure?  :nrocks:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2015, 07:06:25 PM »
The driver is configured to drop the current after a short time of no movement but of course slow stepping would have full current 1/3 of the time.. :coffee:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2015, 02:29:11 AM »
I spent a bit more time today messing with various configurations of the F@P stator.  One stator has been cut down to just 18 coils ( v:42) and I converted that to each phase consisting of six coils in series parallel (3 coils x 2).



This is by far the fastest configuration I have ever tested with a top speed of 600 rpm.  I need to think some more and decide if further improvements are possible.  Of course speed is not everything and low speed torque is probably more important.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2015, 08:52:10 AM »
John I was just thinking yesterday that paralleling coils would raise the voltage they see vs running them serial (and so increase speed), while the full circuit circuit current could increase proportionately without exceeding the current/heat limits of individual coils.

And sounds like that is what you've done.  :clap:

Another thought...... maybe make a prony brake from two sticks of wood bolted together, and a hole drilled through the joint to make a shaft clamp. Measure out some convenient arm length along the sticks from the shaft, and put a spring scale at that point. Energize the motor, and check the scale reading. The torque is the distance out, times the scale reading

That will give you a torque measurement in whatever units you chose. Generally steppers are rated at holding torque, (and in the U.S. as in.oz.). You could check holding torque by having the motor energized but stationary, and moving the scale until it jumps a step -- that point would be the lmit of holding torque. This would give you some idea of the performance of your stepper, and also allow you to compare different speed hookups and microstepping effects.

If you don't have a scale, you can make one effectively from the brake itself. Put  a spring on the brake to a fixed point, add a dial and pointer. Calibrate with some known weights, and then do your test of the motor.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2015, 01:29:05 PM »
Yep,  De Prony brake is under consideration!
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2015, 09:09:20 PM »
Cool!  :coffee: :clap:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2015, 09:23:02 PM »
Too many coils in parallel is a bad idea, :coffee:  with 6 coils in parallel the resistance is only 0.3 ohms and the driver shakes it head when presented with that load.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2015, 02:48:44 PM »
Just three coils, one for each phase, runs very fast, so fast I chickened out and did not take it to the maximum fearing the rotor will fill my workshop with flying bits of plastic and small magnets. :zap:

So what can be gained from this information?  Obviously there is nothing to do with the characteristics of the individual coils or magnet circuits that prevent high speed operation and also obvious is that the controller and driver circuits can drive to high speeds.

The challenge now is to arrive at a configuration that is optimum for this combination of F@P and these driver bits.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2015, 09:28:27 AM »
 :coffee:  :coffee:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2015, 01:52:22 PM »
I did a test yesterday with the cut down stator and found low speed torque 2.6 Nm (about 350 ounce inch) of low speed torque and a free running speed of 500rpm. This is with each phase consisting of 6 coils in series parallel configuration of 3x2.

Considering my earlier test I believe this is the most practical configuration for this motor with the power supply and drivers I have on hand. Considering also that I am using only 18 of the original 42 coils I expect more powerful drivers would get at least 5.5Nm of torque, maybe more.

If I were to add more coils that would mean more in series which would reduce the voltage across each coil and increase the inductance.

The drivers say they are good for 60 volts, 8.3 volts peaks and 5.9 volt rms, maybe if I stub my toe on a 50v transformer! :coffee:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2015, 07:13:00 PM »
Two matched 30's with secondaries in series would get you 60V. But you have to phase them properly or you won't get any voltage.

I've done the same to increase current capacity instead by parallel connectingl, but then you ABSOLUTELY must get the phasing right, or it's a short circuit for both.  :zap:

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2015, 02:27:04 AM »
I have a power supply lashed up on the bench.  30 amps at 62 volts but I would really like it to be closer to 55 volts.  No taps left on the transformer to reduce the voltage. :(
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8968
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2015, 03:14:56 AM »
Any room on the transformer bobbin to wind any extra coils ? If so connect in opposition to reduce the effective number of turns on the secondary. I've used this technique several times when making phase converters from standard isolating transformers.. Transformer construction needs to be suitable to thread the wire round the bobbin without dismantling.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Jonfb64

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
  • Country: england
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2015, 03:57:43 AM »
How about winding a new secondary onto a microwave transformer. It's easy to remove the old secondary which leaves plenty of room to wind a new one. I have used one to make a small 800 amp spot welder. Check out YouTube plenty of info of stripping one out.

Jon

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2015, 04:09:23 AM »
No room to poke any any turns on the secondary but I might be able to get the desired result by winding a few turns off,  maybe tomorrow.  Perhaps I will look at a microwave transformer after that!
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2015, 04:21:29 AM »
I managed a little surgery on the transformer taking 5 turns off the top of the secondary, no load voltage is now 56 volts which I thought would be comfortably within the 60V spec of the driver however stalling the motor causes the driver to go into alarm, I dont know if that is over voltage or over current. :palm:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline PekkaNF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2523
  • Country: fi
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2015, 04:38:03 AM »
I managed a little surgery on the transformer taking 5 turns off the top of the secondary, no load voltage is now 56 volts which I thought would be comfortably within the 60V spec of the driver however stalling the motor causes the driver to go into alarm, I dont know if that is over voltage or over current. :palm:
My limited experience tells that if the drive has regenerative braking and it is decelerating you may get over voltage if the feeder is weak (can't absob current and that will cause voltage rise).

Overcurrent means too fast ramps or too much torque demand.

Pekka

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2015, 08:50:13 AM »
The driver seems weird though. If it says 60V spec, and you can set the current (usually with a DIP switch setting), it should handle everything in a 56V setup.

It is supposed to limit current, and it is supposed to operate with 60V input, and it is supposed to operate a motor and hold position, when needed, (ie a stall) so what should be wrong?

 Is the 56V clean DC?

Are you running through a rectifier bridge with adequate filter caps?


The only other possibility is that there's some current rating for the driver (not the current setting), and it doesn't like the low resistance of your motor @ 56V -- 56V pushes too much current for the driver max rating.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2015, 09:04:05 AM »
One more thought:

56V is measured DC after the bridge and caps -- I hope,

not just the AC (or Xformer rating).........

DC would be considerably higher if it is.....

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8968
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2015, 10:03:00 AM »
IIRC the original Gecko drives needed a large electrolytic capacitor close to the driver 'to absorb the over run current'
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2015, 01:36:03 PM »
The voltage is measured at the filter capacitor which is a beer can sized 3600 150VDC.  I can add capacitors on the motor leads but that seems counter productive. 

Maybe I should take my wife on a two hour drive and buy some 56Volt zeners. :coffee:  This is a 3 phase motor so I guess I would need half a dozen diodes.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2015, 04:48:16 AM »
I wired another stator today, using all 42 coils,  every phase 4,4,3,3 in parallel and it is not a very good performer at all on 55volts 6 amps. :coffee:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2015, 01:17:09 PM »
I had another try with my latest rotor and managed to measure nearly 6 N.m. of holding torque. It also free runs up to 300rpm. That is using every coil configured every phase 4,4,3,3 in parallel. The three phases are connected in delta.

I think it is time to start building the machine.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2015, 03:03:18 PM »
Well that's nearly 1000 in oz. ! Should do the job.  :thumbup:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2015, 03:09:17 PM »
What would a 'regular' stepper with that torque cost do you think?
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2015, 03:22:30 PM »
From $100, on up, here, depending on country of origin and the firm selling it.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline bertie_bassett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
  • Country: 00
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2015, 03:30:01 PM »
where do you find all these usefully moddable motors??? starting to get jealous.
a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline John Hill

  • The Artful Bodger
  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Country: nz
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2015, 03:37:39 PM »
These motors can be found at the roadside on council clean up days in New Zealand and Australia.  They are the motors from Fisher and Paykel Smartdrive washing machines, since 1992 but similar motors are now to be found in  Samsung and other makers.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline bertie_bassett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
  • Country: 00
Re: CNC router table...
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2015, 01:11:52 PM »
ill have to keep an eye out. cant say iv ever seen one with a motor like these in them over here though :(
a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine