Need Help Buiding Bead Roller Dies

[snub]

I built myself a tubing bead roller as I have some aluminum supercharger tubing that needs a bead rolled on each end so the hose clamp doesn't blow off when high boost is encountered. The female die was easy, but the male was a super pain in the rear. I got it done but it took forever and it's less than perfect. Here is a picture of the rollers. The male doesn't actually look that bad in the photo. ( Trick Photography ).





So I see these " roundover end mills" on the Interweb and I'm wondering if these might be the answer to some easy die building. KMS Tools has a set like this on sale for $100.00 CDN which won't empty my bank account but thought I better ask first in case they aren't suitable for the job.





And since my math is bad I thought I would ask this question. The set comes with 8 pieces with a radius of 1/8th inch to 3/8". I'm thinking that radius is half the diameter, so if I wanted the "lip" of the male die to be 1/4" wide I would use a bit with a 1/4" radius, do one side, then turn it around and do the other side.

I'm only guessing as I've not used these before.

[dawesy]

I've seen milling cutters mounted in a lathe tool post for this kind of thing so I can't see why it wouldn't work.
Have you thought about making a HSS form tool?

[lordedmond]

Snub

For the male roller just make up a form tool .
Get some 8 mm thick gauge plate ( it is like silver steel and can be hardened the same way)

Set it up in the mill at a slight angle drill and ream for the width OD the form you want, then mill off to less than half the hole at the same setting, touch up the sharp corner , harden fully and then let it down a touch ,hone the top surface , use at slow revs and plenty of lube .
They work fine I have a box full and much cheaper than the em you have shown

Stuart

[vtsteam]

And the form tool need only be the half or full size of the bead, not the full width of the roller, to reduce chatter and tool pressure. On this side of the Pond "gauge plate" is called flat ground tool steel. You'd want the type that can be oil or water hardened and tempered, if you were going to do that. It should come fully annealed, or you will have to anneal it first.

I've used automotive spring stock, too, annealed and hardened and tempered.

[lordedmond]

Thanks for the update on the terms for the same stuff the joys of the English language
We all do it use the terms we know , sometimes it can cause a red face the USA know then as an eraser we in the UK say rubber 😳

Stuart

[vtsteam]

A bit of a shock when a girl I knew in London back in the late sixties said she was going to knock me up Sunday morning and take me to a pub to hear jazz. I really didn't understand you people, but who was I to argue?

[awemawson]

"Two cultures divided by a common language"   

[snub]

I have some oil hardening and some water hardening "drill rod" which I believe is the same as silver steel. It is ready for machining but I'm not familiar with the process of hardening. Do I simply get it red hot and then quench it? I thought it would be brittle at this stage and need some further process.

[lordedmond]

Ok quick 101

Get it red hot hold it there for about 1 minute per inch thickness test with a magnet while its still red it should now at the correct temp non magnetic , quench in water or oil as per its type w or o

Then rub on some emery cloth to polish the surface , now heat it slowly away from the cutting edge and watch the colour change let it get to straw for a scribe or heat further to blue for a lathe tool then re quench as before.

Stuart

[snub]

Thanks for the tutorial, Stuart, but I'm not getting the " Let it go to straw for a scribe". Do I need a translator here? (lol)

[vtsteam]

Nope, means the same this side: straw colored.

Left side of the reddish in this range of tempering colors:




A scribe needs to be very hard to scratch a line, and not wear quickly. Left side of the range above is hardest.

A lathe tool needs to be a bit softer, so it isn't brittle and doesn't shatter (though still hard) so it's on the right side of the color range.

Past the color range on the left is full hard, and past the color range on the right is full soft (or annealed).

[lordedmond]

Thanks for the translation

I have difficulty in explaining due to dyslexia I know want i want to say to help people but have trouble getting it in print


Stuart

[vtsteam]

You said it fine Stuart. I just added a picture.....

[vtsteam]

I just found another chart that shows lathe tools and milling cutters toward the straw side, so I guess there's a range of opinion. (I've actually made and used an Acme threading tool that was full hard, without tempering, and I didn't manage to break it ) so I don't know really what is best.

With this kind of stuff, you just make it and see -- if it breaks, temper it further, if it wears too quickly or doesn't cut, temper it harder. Small tools are very quick to make and try out, and inexpensive.

[snub]

Thanks for the help gentlemen, I'm going to take a crack at it. I love experimenting so this will be fun.