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Author Topic: Poppin Engine build.  (Read 34789 times)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2015, 06:03:12 AM »
Quote from: Manxmodder on January 05, 2015, 07:32:04 PM
David, just out of interest,will the ethanol produce less water vapour than the purple meths that we get from the chemist/drug store?   And I wonder which of these fuels burn hotter?.....OZ.

OZ.
Yes. But.......

I find "meths", quite adequate, for test purposes/ cleaning etc.

Running a burner under a steam engine boiler, will produce sooting, after a session.
A small flame, to test an engine for a few minutes, will not be noticeable.
I've never noticed water vapour, from a flame. My recent problems were caused by warming the sheer mass of the  castings.

When it comes to showtime, and several hours running. I find the denatured alcohol is much less sooty, and hotter.

A pal, with more experience than me, advocates shellac thinners. Though, I've not managed to locate any, as yet.

I always think. Schoolboys managed very well with what was available at the time.
Mum's sewing m/c oil, and a medicine bottle of meths, filled at the chemists, (for a shilling)........

I think, it's better to develop, over time, and experience, what suits you and your engines.

David D
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2015, 06:22:28 AM »
Quote from: ian_in_the_midlands on January 06, 2015, 01:22:56 AM
I had read somewhere not to use meths because it produces more moisture and does not burn so hot.
I had not seen the bio-ethanol before. Would this be better than Isopropanol 99.9%?
Isopropanol would have other uses in addition to being a fuel (Cleaning PCBs etc).

I had not thought of using stove rope.

Thanks.

Ian.
See above.......

Isopropanol/ bio-ethanol....... I dunno!

All I can suggest, is to buy a bottle of one of them. To establish a benchmark.
Then, over time, you can try others. To decide, what suits you, and your engines........

Stove rope, is made of glass fibre. It doesn't burn away, but it is loosely woven, and unravels at it's cut end.

I use a smaller diameter, with the cut ends bound with a couple of turns of copper wire.
Then  install it as a loop, with the ends inside the tank......




David D

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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2015, 04:32:14 PM »
Quote from: Stilldrillin on November 18, 2014, 04:16:18 AM
This is my method.

Piece of dowel. Minus a thou or so, on bore size.......




Smear of fine grinding paste. Plus oil, as time goes on. Around 80rpm.......




The cylinder is oscillated backwards n forwards. Reversing occasionally on the lap. Until all feels smooth with no tight spots.

Works for me!  :thumbup:

David D

Hi David, I used your wooden lap and fine grinding paste technique to good effect whilst finishing a critical bore size in a bronze trunnion block for the old Alba shaper I'm rebuilding.

I made it from a piece dried ash firewood and it worked remarkably well :thumbup:
......OZ.

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Offline fcheslop

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2015, 06:27:37 PM »
Poppin will run fine on meths
dunno who told David to use shellac thinners.
She is looking well :bow:
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2015, 05:56:03 AM »
Quote from: Manxmodder on January 12, 2015, 04:32:14 PM
Hi David, I used your wooden lap and fine grinding paste technique to good effect whilst finishing a critical bore size in a bronze trunnion block for the old Alba shaper I'm rebuilding.

I made it from a piece dried ash firewood and it worked remarkably well :thumbup:
......OZ.

Nice one, OZ!   :clap: :clap:

Very pleased it has helped.......    :thumbup:

David D
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2015, 05:57:12 AM »
Quote from: fcheslop on January 12, 2015, 06:27:37 PM
Poppin will run fine on meths
dunno who told David to use shellac thinners.
She is looking well :bow:


Yabugga!
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline chipenter

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2015, 02:20:14 PM »
Shellac Thinners is white meths it's hard to come by as people drink it .
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Offline fcheslop

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2015, 05:24:34 PM »
 :D
Any good trade outlet's.
Theres one at Thirsk the names slipped my memory :Doh:
It wont matter as poppin runs well on meths .
cheers
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Offline ian_in_the_midlands

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2015, 03:32:23 PM »
A bit more work with a saw and a file on the standard.
If the engine runs I will polish it up, but for now I need to move on.

Put together the parts so far.

If I spin the flywheels they will turn for 15 seconds before stopping.
Is this acceptable of should I be expecting better?

Unfortunately there the crank now looks to be a little off true, causing one flywheel to wobble a bit.
I will continue with it for now

I also made up a temporary burner for trial purposes.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2015, 05:43:39 PM »
Ian.

I guess, you haven't made the valve mechanism, as yet.

Even without it. A 15 seconds spin, is fantastic!  :bugeye:

With, the valve mech in place. 15 turns would be good...... 

I think, you're a bit enthusiastic with the spare wick!
Only need sufficient, to loop once, around the base of the tank. Save some for another day.......  :thumbup:

Looking good. Shaping up well!  :clap: :clap:

David D
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2015, 07:24:13 PM »
Yes it is looking very nice, indeed! :beer:
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Offline ian_in_the_midlands

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2015, 01:12:37 AM »
I thought if I put the wick in there I would know where to find it in the future. :).
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2015, 05:25:59 PM »
Quote from: ian_in_the_midlands on January 26, 2015, 01:12:37 AM
I thought if I put the wick in there I would know where to find it in the future. :).

Ah!

I'd not thought of that.......  :thumbup:

David D
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2015, 06:30:42 PM »
I once saw a tapeworm in a jar of formaldehyde, and.......well, I'm getting dejavu.... :lol:
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I love it when a Plan B comes together!
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Offline ian_in_the_midlands

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2015, 02:35:38 PM »
Disaster looming!
Not much done the last couple of weeks as it has been too cold in the garage.
Had a look at it today and noticed the threads tapped into the cylinder to attach it to the standard appear to be breaking up. The bolts that were originally all a good tight fit are now very lose.
I have been very careful not to overtighten the bolts so am not sure the cause.
The plans call for an imperial thread, but I used metric. Maybe the thread is too fine to hold in cast iron?
It is happening on all 4 tapped holes.

I can not drill out and go up a thread size as there is not enough metal, so need another solution.
I thought maybe rather than using bolts, I threadlock some studs in, but suspect that threadlock may not withstand the heat.

Anyone else with any suggestions as to why this has happened, and the best way I could overcome it? I really do not want to have to build the cylinder and piston again, especially as I do not know how to avoid the same thing happening again.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2015, 04:07:51 PM »
Oh bugga, Ian.  :palm:

I would go with the stud and threadlock idea, to stabilise the remaining threads.

I have used Loctite 270, for many years.
Even for steam engine (exhaust) pipe joints, and hot air engine displacers. Never had a failure........  :thumbup:

David D
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2015, 04:11:47 PM »
Loctite 270 is down to less than half it's strength at 150 deg C and the makers don't push their graph beyond that temperature !
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Andrew Mawson
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2015, 04:16:55 PM »
Quote from: awemawson on February 21, 2015, 04:11:47 PM
Loctite 270 is down to less than half it's strength at 150 deg C and the makers don't push their graph beyond that temperature !

I'm sure, they used to quote 250 deg!

I've used it for many years, without problem.........

Everyone. Make your own mind up.  :thumbup:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2015, 04:20:27 PM »
Relevant graphs are on page 2

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/22660.pdf

They quote 250 deg C as the temperature to raise it to to break the joint
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Offline ian_in_the_midlands

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2015, 05:31:07 PM »
What sort of temperatures is the cylinder likely to reach?
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2015, 05:33:24 PM »
Quote from: awemawson on February 21, 2015, 04:20:27 PM
Relevant graphs are on page 2
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/22660.pdf

They quote 250 deg C as the temperature to raise it to to break the joint

You are quite correct, Andrew!  :thumbup:

But, I would be happy to use, what I have always used. In this small, lightly stressed application........

David D

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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2015, 05:35:20 PM »
Quote from: ian_in_the_midlands on February 21, 2015, 05:31:07 PM
What sort of temperatures is the cylinder likely to reach?

At the standard end. Not much, above the temp of boiling water. If at all.......

David D
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David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline fcheslop

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Re: Poppin Engine build.
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2015, 05:45:51 PM »
Will it not be possible to simply drill the holes deeper and rethread?? or drill and tap the frame for a couple of grub screws to lock the cylinder into the frame.
What size did you use 2mm
cheers
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