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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: AdeV on December 28, 2020, 07:02:13 AM

Title: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on December 28, 2020, 07:02:13 AM
As mentioned in another thread, somewhere else, I recently unearthed an old DTI. It's been stuck in the bottom of a box, in some mystery gunk, for - well, ever as far as I can tell. I've no idea what the gunk is, but it's covering about 1/2 of the dial, looks a bit like un-diluted jelly - it's got a slightly springy but also crystallised texture. It doesn't dissolve in white spirit. Unfortunately, it's jammed the needle, and also covered up the markings that tell me what the scale is, so I don't know if it reads thousandths or tenths...

What I can tell is, it was made by A. Capp & Sons (Andy Capp??), and was inspected on the 9th June 1965.

Anyway, Bob (aka krv3000) has kindly offered to take up the challenge, although he hasn't seen the state of it yet! I think this one will be really tricky to bring back from the dead...

See pics below. I 3D-printed a nice box for it to go in, which will be its permanent home if it is rescuable!
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: philf on December 28, 2020, 07:22:37 AM
Ade,

I don't like throwing things away but that would have gone in the bin! (But then I have a couple similar)

Good luck with it Bob.

Phil.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: chipenter on December 28, 2020, 09:22:13 AM
Bob wont be putting the cotton buts in his mouth on that one , I learnt a lot from his videos .
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2020, 10:11:56 AM
Bob, you have your work cut out for you!  :bow:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on December 28, 2020, 11:31:37 AM
I don't like throwing things away but that would have gone in the bin! (But then I have a couple similar)

It nearly went in the bin... what stopped me is; I've only got one other DTI like this (and it's a 10ths one, my P&J, which gets only occasional light use), and I thought Bob might like the challenge :)
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on December 28, 2020, 01:56:19 PM
well all I can do is have a go theirs nothing to loos as it stands its not working regards bob
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 02, 2021, 01:02:25 PM
 hi the D.T.I arrived today defiantly a challenge :D :D 
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: awemawson on January 02, 2021, 02:24:38 PM
Itís in safe hands I think Bob !
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 03, 2021, 06:45:43 PM
will be posting pics soon
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 04, 2021, 11:24:26 AM
Looking forward to seeing what you can do with it!

I found out a little more about A. Capp & Son Ltd. (only one son, not many sons...); they were incorporated in the 1943 in Crayford, Kent; went bust in 1991 (the administrators finally wound the company up in 1996). I'm guessing they made Verdict indicators from at least the 1950s (based on their address in 1957: Verdict Gauge Works), probably until their insolvency. Looks like the rights to the Verdict name were bought by Rother Machine Tools Ltd (of Ashford, Kent), which changed its name in 1992 to Verdict Gauge Ltd. That company still exists, but at some point was, presumably, acquired by its current owner MJ Allen, based on the website & names on the front of their building.

So, there you go - more history than you needed, and of absolutely no use whatsoever, other than whimsical interest.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
well i no one thing wat was ever stuck to the face has removed part of it  :palm:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 07, 2021, 10:40:48 PM
kinda looked that way....  :(
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 08, 2021, 03:04:21 AM
Not a big surprise, Bob! Whatever it was, it looked pretty evil...
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: Joules on January 08, 2021, 04:56:15 AM
Holy cow, were they using that DTI to measure the lava lake deflection on Kilauea.  What happened to the glass or is, THAT the glass.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 08, 2021, 07:03:57 PM
well i think its the remans of the glass   but its working it lives ones more  :)
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 09, 2021, 07:08:36 AM
well i think its the remans of the glass   but its working it lives ones more  :)

 :bugeye: :clap:  :nrocks: :nrocks:  :bow: :beer:

Think that pretty much says it all  :thumbup:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 09, 2021, 03:37:19 PM
right this D.T.I has bin the worst one I have ever dune I think you will see by the pics that it was a challenge the dawn side is the diel this is one part i can not fix any way pics 
 
 
 
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 09, 2021, 04:11:42 PM
more pics 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: WeldingRod on January 09, 2021, 06:38:26 PM
You, sir, are a magician!
Wow!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: Pete49 on January 09, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
It's a shame you don't live here in Australia Bob. I have a Starret caliper that needs your tender touch. Nowhere near as bad as that job though.
Pete
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 09, 2021, 10:43:24 PM
Man, Bob, you are earning your pay!   :coffee:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 10, 2021, 01:15:55 AM
Made this up best I could. The zip contains the full size version. You'll have to scale it to actual size. Hope it helps.

Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 10, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
Bob, if you want I can make a printable scale version (with better resolution) but I would need to know what the actual needed diameter is. Or pdf file version if easier to deal with. I can also make a usable paper or decal version, and mail it to you if wanted. If so, PM me with the mailing address.

Or maybe you have your own Bob-magic solution for the dial.  :beer:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 10, 2021, 02:53:25 PM
hi the diel is 48mm across  thanks for the help
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 10, 2021, 03:21:44 PM
Okay Bob, here's a pdf file scaled to 48mm.

When you print it (using Acrobat Reader) just make sure that "Fit to page" is turned off, otherwise it will enlarge it. Also it sholud be printed at 100% scale. If you have any problems at all, just let me know and we'll make it work.



Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: John Rudd on January 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Great how we help each other.... :bow:   :beer: :beer:

Keep it coming....
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 11, 2021, 03:16:54 AM
What can I say.... thank you both!

Looks like Eric's got a big donation heading his way soon....
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 11, 2021, 03:23:46 AM
BTW - Bob, what does that little lever thing do, just under the dial? I've since discovered I also have a Mitutoyo DTI, along with the Tesa I bought ages ago, and neither of them have that feature on them...

There may also be some questions as to how it ended up in that condition.... short answer is, I have no idea! I don't recall buying it, so I must have acquired it in a job lot of other stuff at some point in the past. I only found it when I was moving literally everything in storage (strengthening the shelves with steel under-bars), and happened to glance in the tub it was sat in. There was some kind of oily gunk in the bottom of it, and this indicator... I don't actually recall having ever seen it before, so it's a true mystery how it came to be in my possession.  I'm just really happy to see it brought back from the dead - as Phil said, it would have been so easy to just throw it in the bin... now it gets a second life as a useful indicator once again  :nrocks:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: Sea.dog on January 11, 2021, 04:07:56 AM
It reverses the direction of operation of the pointer.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 11, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
Very happy to help -- just plain fun to solve problems -- I think we all feel that way on this forum!

One thing I was curious about was that it was 0 to 80 instead of 0 to 100, unless I got that wrong. I couldn't see for sure, but it looked like 40 was at 6 o'clock, so 0-80 is what I drew up. (if I was wrong, just let me know and I'll re-do it).
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 11, 2021, 02:09:03 PM
Very happy to help -- just plain fun to solve problems -- I think we all feel that way on this forum!

It's one of the things I like best about this forum!

One thing I was curious about was that it was 0 to 80 instead of 0 to 100, unless I got that wrong. I couldn't see for sure, but it looked like 40 was at 6 o'clock, so 0-80 is what I drew up. (if I was wrong, just let me know and I'll re-do it).

So... I had a look at my Mitutoyo earlier, mainly because it's handy here at my desk, and it's graduated the same way- 0-40-0. However, it's a metric dial... so I wonder if this one might be metric too?

Hang on a tic... I'll go grab the Tesa, which I know is imperial... back in a moment.


.


.


Back (phew). So, that's graduated 0 - 4 - 0 (thousandths), with each tick representing a tenth.  I wonder, therefore, if this is actually a 0 - 40 - 0 gauge, each tick being 0.01mm? Unfortunately, there's not enough of the dial left to be sure either way...

Maybe the solution here is to invent a new measure; let's base it on the average size of a gnat's reproductive member.... so graduate the dial 0-4-0, where each tick represents 0.1gc (gnat's cock) - so long as I can achieve an accuracy of "within a gnat's cock", I'll be happy  :D  As a side bonus, then it doesn't matter if it's metric or imperial!
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 11, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Well, Ade, easy enough for me to re-calibrate the dial, unless Bob has already installed the present one.

oops I think I see a "2" on the right about where 25 would be if it was a 0-40-0 --- okay I'll make a new onr for that -- hope it's not too late for Bob -- sorry, should have asked!
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 11, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
Here's an 0-40-0 version in 0001 inches:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 11, 2021, 03:00:21 PM
And if you think it's mm then I can change the .0001" legend to 0.01mm. Well, work of a moment, I'll do that now, then you'll have a full selection of dials!
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 11, 2021, 03:19:35 PM
Edit -- attachment removed to avoid confusion..

Okay, here's an 0-40-0 with a 0.01mm legend.

Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 11, 2021, 05:41:44 PM
hi on you are ok with the diel 40 is at 6 o clock the lil lever as  sea dog says It reverses the direction of operation of the pointer.  I.E with the lever in one place the probe will only move the pointer one way move the lever to the other side the probe will move the pointer in the other direction   will post pics of the diel fitted soon  regards bob 
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: djc on January 12, 2021, 09:18:52 AM
Okay, here's an 0-40-0 with a 0.01mm legend.

Lovely job.

Please have a look here:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-capp-sons-verdict-0005-dial-244644423

and see how the bar above Verdict is discontinuous.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 12, 2021, 10:46:20 AM
I could do it no problem, but I don't want to drive bob insane!

Also since I don't actually know whether the gauge is metric or inch, 0-40-0 or 0-80, I don't know which dial to modify.

But if Bob hasn't already applied the dial face, and if he wants, and can tell me which face to modify, I'd be happy to oblige.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on January 12, 2021, 01:00:03 PM
I'm quite happy that this gauge doesn't look 100% original - it's part of it's story....

That's why I (only half-jokingly) suggested the "Gnat's Cock" measurement system.... I think it'd be cool to have a gauge that showed gnat's cocks - and I know it'd make my dad laugh :)
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 13, 2021, 08:05:25 PM
i love it when a plan works out its inch by the way still not printed it off yet  :doh: :doh:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 14, 2021, 11:44:48 AM
Okay great Bob, inch....that narrows it down.

Bob, can you tell from the old face if it was 0-40-0 or 0-80? Just out of curiosity.....

My guess is 0-40-0..... only because it looked to me like there was part of a "2" on the right side, about where second "25" would be on an 0-40-0.

If it were 0-80 that would be a "5" for the beginning of a "55".

But really hard to tell in the photos.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 16, 2021, 07:20:17 PM
hi its a 0 to 40
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on January 24, 2021, 04:47:01 PM
sos every one things this end ant bin to good i will get it finisht  soon regards bob
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: Pete. on January 24, 2021, 07:14:47 PM
You take it easy Bob.

When you get better I got a similar Verdict for you to fix :D It's in much better nick than that one but it needs a new spring on the lever.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on January 24, 2021, 08:05:26 PM
Don't worry, Bob.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on February 07, 2021, 12:27:00 PM
hi all just an update  got sum ink for the printer and printed out the new face for the D.T.I and its brill thanks vtsteam  all bin well will be posting pics tomorrow all back together regards bob 
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on February 14, 2021, 05:05:47 PM
Hi all you will never gess wats happened :) :) :) :)  its dune  lol i must say sorry for it taking such a time to do  things that i can not control get in the way any way last pics  AdeV it will be in the post tomorrow
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: awemawson on February 14, 2021, 05:22:57 PM
Absolutely brilliant Bob, great work as usual  :thumbup:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: Pete. on February 14, 2021, 05:31:53 PM
Nice work Bob. You would never guess it was the same instrument.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on February 14, 2021, 06:16:43 PM
Oh, so it was an 0 to 80 then! Lucky I took careful aim with a scattergun!

Looks so different than when it started out, Bob, great work!  :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap: :beer:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: Sea.dog on February 14, 2021, 06:59:12 PM
Fantastic  :clap:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: mattinker on February 15, 2021, 04:52:35 AM
Beautiful! You did an amazing job!
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: RussellT on February 15, 2021, 05:40:38 AM
I'm really impressed. Nice work Bob.

I like the box too.  The question is who is going to find something worse for the DTI Challenge 2022?

Russell
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: BillTodd on February 15, 2021, 07:59:18 AM
Great work Bob  :headbang:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: philf on February 15, 2021, 02:19:58 PM
And I said that I'd have binned it!

Well done Bob.

Inspired by your efforts I took a faulty 0.001" DTI apart and found that the rod designed to stop the spindle rotating had sheared off flush with the spindle. I have some watchmakers slitting files and managed to slot the broken off part (cutting slightly into the spindle) and unscrew it. It was threaded 10 BA so a new part was easily made and I now have one more useful DTI in my collection.
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on February 16, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
hi thanks all for the comments  as I have sed before their is no harm in trying to fix it your self if its broken you can not make it ant worse than it is regards bob
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: AdeV on February 16, 2021, 05:40:04 PM
their is no harm in trying to fix it your self if its broken you can not make it ant worse than it is

Yeah, well.. that's not strictly true... Just ask the Lister LR1 engine I went to "fix" (currently in pieces in a bucket); or the Jag XJS I was fixing (took it apart, it's been apart for 7 years now)....

 :scratch: :lol: :poke:
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: howsitwork? on February 17, 2021, 05:10:09 PM
Nice work Bob as usual !

Now Ade, you know an XJS needs time to mature properly and for the penetrating oil to penetrate properly. Another years or two should do it,
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: vtsteam on February 18, 2021, 01:45:09 PM
Ade I still think about that Jag.

Keeps me from thinking about my lathe.....
Title: Re: DTI Challenge....
Post by: krv3000 on February 19, 2021, 07:30:10 PM
lol at jag