MadModder

The Craftmans Shop => New from Old => Topic started by: awemawson on September 26, 2019, 03:07:06 PM

Title: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 26, 2019, 03:07:06 PM
As some of you will be aware I've been looking for a large generator set for a while to re-commission my 100 kVA Induction Furnace. Although I have an adequate 3 phase supply into the farm I am seriously concerned that any problems commissioning might result in a major failure of the local electricity supply network and provoke unwanted questions  :bugeye:

I settled on a set made by George Puttock Ltd based on a 1972 Dorman 6LE 187 HP 11 litre in line 6 normally aspirated diesel engine. This drives a Macfarlane B46B alternator and is controlled by relay logic made by Puttocks.

George Puttock Ltd went to the wall years ago, but out of the ashes arose the Puma Generator Ltd company and some of the staff from the original company are still with Puma.

This was an eBay 'Spares or Repairs' purchase, the story being that it was a stand by set for a large house that had been converted into offices, and it failed to auto start last Christmas. As the house was scheduled for demolition they didn't get it repaired. This story is feasible as I've seen the planning application for the demolition ! I just hope that it wasn't some horrid mechanical problem  :bugeye:

A deal was struck to include transport to my place - the chap had what he thought was a suitable trailer and towing vehicle so funds changed hands.

Here it is when it eventually arrived

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on September 26, 2019, 03:23:32 PM
I look forward to hearing more on this... :zap:

Keep the momentum going.. :coffee:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 26, 2019, 03:23:45 PM
Now the 'suitable trailer' was initially a bit of an issue as he had somehow to lift the set two foot in the air to load up. Then when he coupled up to his Navara the front wheels came off the ground  :clap:

OK change of plan - need a lorry, and NO I'm not funding alternative transport, a deal is a deal  :med:

He struck a deal with a local haulage company and this morning, in torrential rain, it arrived and was safely plonked on the floor in the Tractor Shed to let me have a look at it in the dry.

Old equipment like this tends to get a bit damp and electrically leaky, and to prove my worst fear true, I was measuring practically a dead short between any phase and the chassis. This is not good news  :bang:

Mentally accepting that a long drying out period was going to be needed, I started stripping off the output cables that had just been cut by angle grinder - 50 sq mm csa copper cables !

Imagine my relief finding that the 'neutral earth' link had been left attached - phew - what I was measuring was the DC resistance of a winding on a massive alternator ie practically zero. With the link disconnected there is in fact remarkably good insulation resistance 'phase to chassis'  :clap:

The cabinet still needs a good drying, and I've left it with a 60W light bulb in overnight as the tubular cabinet heater that it is fitted with is open circuit.

It's a 24 volt starting system, but the pair of '644' batteries that came with it are pretty useless, not even registering on my 'Cold Cranking Meter' whereas they should be 650 CCA. A replacement pair are on order due for delivery tomorrow (Friday)

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 26, 2019, 03:41:34 PM
It's going to be great fun working out what the relay logic is doing - and I may well not as I have a feeling that I have a brand new 'Deep Sea' generator controller stored in one of my containers that came with a generator that I sold years ago. I'll go hunting tomorrow

Puma had a record of this generator but no documentation except a .PDF of the relay board, but not it's interconnections. Still this will be a good starting point.

These things monitor things such as oil pressure, water temperature, manifold depression, battery volts, main supply volts and loads of other parameters and implement starting sequences that cope with up to (usually) three failed starts.

Have some pictures:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Will_D on September 26, 2019, 04:57:25 PM
Andrew, Oh NO!!, Not again!!

Not another massive project, please confirm that the pigs will be alright?

Looking forward already

Will (struggling with a controller upgrade for my CNC mill}
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 26, 2019, 05:23:21 PM
Well Will, it was pretty well inevitable, and after all this is merely a sub project as an adjunct to the Induction Furnace resurrection.  :lol:

It turns out that I DO have a Deep Sea 3110 controller - or at least that what reading emails from 5 years ago leads me to believe, and from the documentation that I've down loaded it looks pretty well ideal  :thumbup:

Still need to mine into the container tomorrow to 'press the flesh' !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on September 26, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
LIKE!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: modeng200023 on September 27, 2019, 02:11:47 AM
I do envy you and your toys
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on September 27, 2019, 04:09:09 AM
Why do things by halves?  :lol:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 27, 2019, 04:50:54 AM
Ironically I had just pulled the two still wrapped up boxes that were deposited in the container in 2014, and opened the smaller one to indeed reveal a Deep Sea 3110 controller installed in a wall box but unused WHEN WE HAD A POWERCUT  :lol:

So pictures will follow when electrons start flowing again. At the moment on iPad using mobile phone as WiFi hotspot.

Of course I had the roller shutter open when this happened and as heavy rain is threatening had to manually drop it with its chain to avoid soaking the Puma again. First time Iíve had to use the chain, by heck it takes forever.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 27, 2019, 09:38:10 AM
So power came back on after a couple of hours, but in the process seems to have fried my electric gate controller  :bang: Much time wasted trying to diagnose sensor problems with a gale blowing, horizontal rain, and diagrams blowing all  over the place and getting soggy. Gave up and ordered a new controller card so no food next month  :(

Meanwhile big lorry dropped off the new batteries so they are now on charge awaiting time to do a test turn over of the engine.

So the Deep Sea 3110 controller: I forced my way into the rear of my container and brought out the two packages deposited there about five years ago. Reasoning that the smaller one was likely to be the controller mounted in its housing, and the larger one the contactor power fail change over chassis I unpacked the little one.

Logic worked (this time) revealing a brand new 3110 in a nice metal enclosure with what is probably a dedicated power supply (yet to investigate) tucked in the back.

So almost certainly I will retro-fit this control and eliminate the relay control of the original Puma thus simplifying the wiring considerably.

I want to be able to crank the engine over having made sure that there is no chance of it starting, to circulate some oil and check the the oil pressure comes up ok before letting it actually run.

To do this I need to investigate the alternator a bit more - it is internally excited and so far I am unclear where precisely the AVR (Automatic Voltage Control) is located. There is a grille covered clip on plate on it's side with 'something' electronicky with at least a fuse on it's pcb that I can spy in there. Once the engine is turning it will generate volts and I'd like that to be under my control at the time  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 27, 2019, 10:57:43 AM
So a bit more prodding and poking this afternoon:

First that Alternator Grille : It turns out that it just un-clips and the entire circumference of the alternator is uncovered revealing as suspected, the AVR. Now allegedly this alternator is made by MacFarlane despite not bearing their name anywhere that I have yet found, but the AVR is most definitely made by Markon (another alternator maker) and is an MS1/B 036-060 AVR. All looks in pretty good condition, and the (hopefully) class F insulation revealed in the exciter alternator looks excellent.

Then chasing some engine wiring:

A/The engine seems to have a heat exchanger oil cooler that has an electrical conduit emerging from it carrying a pair of wires, so either a temperature switch or analogue sender I suspect.

B/The 24 volt charging alternator has a remote regulator and it's wiring looks a mess - it will be tidied up or replaced by an integrated one.

C/There is a large 'universal box' bolted to the chassis holding a pair of heavy duty relays - I suspect that these are for the fuel solenoid (which is massive) and the starter solenoid as none of the other control relays look man enough for these jobs.

. . . so the fun continues  :ddb:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on September 27, 2019, 02:21:01 PM
I am sitting with beer, popcorn, and baited breath......................This is going to be a good one! You could even do one of those " Diesel genny, first start this millenia" YouTube videos. I must admit I am a bit of a sucker for them. GO ANDREW!!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on September 28, 2019, 04:25:35 AM
Very interesting project.

That is one hell of the size for domestic use, we had a Lister in 1970:s till 80:s and it was in the farm, milking machines and lall - single cylinder diesel, maybe 3kW.

I am interested in starting, running and shut down sequences. Never seen that big generators in close and personal.

Pekka
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 28, 2019, 07:30:02 AM
So this morning I thought that I had better make sure that my Forklift will actually pick this beast up - I don't want to have to employ contractors to shift it about. My Hyster is rated at 2.1 tons and just the Dorman engine is said to weigh 1.15 tons according to the literature I've found.

Pleased to say that it did - forks set wide as possible as the balance isn't easily determined - but 'up she went'  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 28, 2019, 07:41:32 AM
So the next thing to do was to see if she would crank over and hopefully shift a bit of oil about before actually letting her fire up. So I firstly removed all the existing wiring from the fuel solenoid and the starter solenoid, and jury rigged a wire to the starter solenoid, having wired in the new pair of batteries that came yesterday.

Dabbed the starter solenoid wire to + 24 volts and zilch, nowt, nothing  :bang:

Removed the cover from the back of the starter motor that includes the solenoid, measured the coil at 6.7 ohms which seemed reasonable, worked it by hand a few times and tried again. She turned over smoothly and easily with no horrid noises but no oil pressure at cranking speed.

OK in for a penny, in for a pound ! I wired the fuel solenoid to a switch, proved it operated AND released (want to be able to stop!) and then went for a 'first start'

She started very quickly, produced a small puff of black smoke then the exhaust quickly cleared -

SHE RUNS !

The alternator output is isolated and at the terminals she was producing spot on 415 volts phase to phase, but this is unloaded of course.

So she is basically a runner and now needs loads of cleaning up, pulling all the old wiring off, and wiring using the new Deep Sea controller. But now at least I know I've not bought a complete lemon !



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on September 28, 2019, 08:08:03 AM
Whenever I have to find the balance point of something like that I lift one end then roll a pipe roller under it. Move the pipe along until it teeters when I let it down and mark the pipe location with a paint mark.

Let me know if you need any control gear Andrew. I have panel switches, 24v supplies, relays, timer relays and a selection of contactors.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on September 28, 2019, 08:46:05 AM
Great build up to a successful run...

Now let's see it produce lectrick..... :zap:   :D
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 28, 2019, 09:53:45 AM
Many thanks for the offer Pete  :thumbup:

So where to start? Well first I needed to clean off the accumulation of vegetation that had settled on the rocker covers over the years. Initially I tried the workshop air hose and a hand brush but was getting nowhere fast, and what I did get off of course was on the floor in the Tractor Shed. Better to move it outside and bring up the big guns in the form of my diesel 'road compressor'

Worked a treat and had the advantage of blowing off some of the flaking blue paint that is going to have to come off anyway before it gets a new coat.

Ran it up again when returned to the tractor shed, and the only issue that I had was a slight oil leak from the nylon oil pipes that I presume directly feed the rockers. Self inflicted I suspect when I balanced the silencer up there for transport. Nipped up the fitting and we'll see next time it runs if it's cured !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on September 28, 2019, 10:02:40 AM
I did wonder what your next project was going to be!

I recognise that type of starter. I've not seen one for a long time though. They do have a proper name, but I can't remember what!
I want to say coaxial, but that doesn't look like it's got a sliding armature. You get a version with a sliding coaxial type drive gear, but the name escapes me.

They were used for big engines with big starting loads. The last one I seen was from a big 80s combine, and the only place I've seen a coaxial was on a hydrostatic forklift that took a lot of winding up even thought it only had a 3 cylinder perkins!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 28, 2019, 01:53:41 PM
I was amazed what a good condition the commutator segments were in  on the starter!

Rain all day forecast for Sunday so I may try pulling the charging alternator off for inspection. The remote regulator is a CAV 440a which I think is a 60 or possibly 80 amp unit. it has three wires from the alternator (3 phases presumably) but oddly also has a lead going off to a sensor in the head water jacket, as well as a pair to the remote charging ammeter which are understandable. All it's connections are pretty nasty and corroded.



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: AdeV on September 28, 2019, 02:02:49 PM
I recognise that type of starter. I've not seen one for a long time though. They do have a proper name, but I can't remember what!

The only type of starter I know has a name that isn't "starter motor" is a Bendix type - but I doubt it's one of those.


but oddly also has a lead going off to a sensor in the head water jacket

Possibly to unload it if it senses an overheating engine? Or maybe it limits the output until the engine is up to temperature?

Looks like your pressure washer needs a wash too! (Mine does as well - it's still covered in pigeon crap from when we moved in here 3 1/2 years ago!)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 28, 2019, 02:04:32 PM
Ade, the 'pressure washer' is a two tool road air compressor, but yes it does need a bit of TLC  :lol:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Kjelle on September 29, 2019, 05:53:29 AM
I like!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on September 29, 2019, 06:31:10 AM





Like!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 29, 2019, 08:06:31 AM
Thanks chaps  :thumbup:

Today's objectives:

A/ Remove and identify battery charging alternator

B/ Strip out the old relay controller and it's wiring.

Now this charging alternator has a pressed plate on the rear secured by three slotted head screws, but in such a position that you can't easily get a screw driver at them due to the oil filter housing, and they were VERY tight. They'd been soaking in 'Plusgas' over night but even so I ended up having to use my impact driver - anyway eventually they unscrewed revealing a mess and a bodge. The main output 'faston' terminal has obviously grossly over heated and is corroded and slack, and one of the other terminals has been bodged with ty-wraps and what looks like a bolt  :scratch:

Now previously I'd mentioned a mystery wire from a water temperature sensor that went into the alternator - no, the cable just passes through and behind the rear plate so at least that mystery is solved.

Try as I might I could not shift the through pivot mounting bolt, again it's not in the easiest of places but never the less it's 'spanner bending tight' and has been given another anointment of Plusgas.

It seems that the engine has  'pad mount' provision for an alternator, but has a bracket attached to the pad converting it to a more conventional 'J180' mounting but the spacing of the pivot 'ears' is rather short at  about 75 mm. It may be that I end up removing the pad mount adaptor and alternator as one and attack it on the bench.

The external charging alternator controller is a CAV 440A so I suppose it is probable that the alternator itself is a CAV - if anyone recognises it please shout. I think I'd prefer to replace it with one with an integral regulator but if I can get  it off I'll take it to my local 'auto electrician' who rebuilds starters and alternators and see what he has to say about it.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 29, 2019, 08:21:44 AM
So on to today's 'objective B' - removal of the old relay controller and associated wiring.

This went rather better, and after all it was just aggressive pruning ! Many of the smaller nuts and bolts resisted unscrewing, but a cold chisel made short work of them. All the relays and wiring have been removed (So no going back now!) with the exception of wires entering the rear of the controller box who's conduit from the engine actually comes in behind the 'false panel' so cannot be got at. When I re-wire, the new conduit will emerge in a more user friendly place.

I was horrified to discover that the voltage monitoring connections are made directly to the heavy wires from the main alternator and didn't pass through ANY form of fusing or isolation to the front panel mounted monitoring meters and switches :bugeye: They will when re-wired - I have temporarily terminated them safely to save having to re-make those humongous crimped terminals that they are jockeyed onto.

So boats now burnt - it HAS to have a new controller, and I've not tested that the Deep Sea 3110 that I have works - fingers crossed !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on September 29, 2019, 08:31:19 AM
LIKE!! The engine sounds sweet enough too! Always a relief when it's running and produce a steady 415V.
Phil
East Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 29, 2019, 09:40:37 AM
I've decided to retain the upper indicator panel that caries a Volt Meter, a Frequency Indicator, a Current Meter, a Running Hours Clock, and the switching to switch the meters from phase to phase. Apart from the current meter this will duplicate things that the Deep Sea controller can display, but I want the current meter and it's easier to keep the lot !

The  Right Hand 'mode' panel I will replace with one just containing the Deep Sea 3110 controller and an Emergency Stop button

The three phase supply to the meter panel I will route via a small 3 phase 30 mA RCD  and 6 amp trip just to add a modicum of safety
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 29, 2019, 10:00:49 AM
So having taken the decision - better  implement it !

Old panel removed leaving space for Deep Sea 3110 and eStop button
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on September 29, 2019, 10:50:51 AM
H,M,L on the schematic - High, Medium and Low charge rate perhaps?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 29, 2019, 11:09:23 AM
That was my assumption, but I'm hardly an expert on these things. But looking at the schematic it would have that effect  :scratch:

Does anyone recognise the make of that charging alternator?

Slight 'undoing' progress in that the bolt that passes though the tubular bit of the alternator and acts as a pivot for belt tightening moves a  bit (maybe 10 degrees) in the threaded hole that it screws into, but is firmly jammed in the tube itself. More Plusgas added and I may be able to tickle it with a propane flame tomorrow - needs care not to fry things !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 29, 2019, 11:29:06 AM
 Sea.Dog I found this image on a Rolls Royce forum where someone has opened up one of these regulators - but if you look at the die cast lettering on the case it confirms our assumption  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on September 29, 2019, 03:41:18 PM
We can feel a little smug then  :med:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 30, 2019, 07:35:56 AM
Today I was determined to get the charging alternator off and identify it. The pivot bolt would unscrew from it's bracket but was stuck absolutely solid in the bore in the alternator itself.

In the end I had to remove the adaptor bracket from the side of the engine and with it in the vice apply rather a lot of violence before in the end it yielded.

Having removed the bracket and got the alternator out a plate was uncovered revealing that it is a CAV AC5A24-3 - now these are still available as they are used on Rolls Royce's and Bentley's but for rather a lot of beer tokens :bugeye:

So I visited SAE services in Ore where Steve runs a one man band auto electrics shop out of a double garage behind the shops. Having gone through his stock of new alternators trying to find something physically  compatible he then remembered that he actually had an old AC5A24-3 tucked away that worked but had knackered bearings - pictures of the Queen changed hands and my task this afternoon is to dismantle it and identify the bearings and order them up.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 30, 2019, 09:40:55 AM
So an early lunch then start pulling the alternator apart. I've changed many but never dismantled one before - how hard can it be  :med:

Not too bad really - I hadn't realised I'd have to un-solder and remove the slip ring assembly, but using 'chuck wedges' pulled it off it's spline eventually. I'll put a bit of Loctite on it on re-assembly.

Bearings came out without too much drama - whole thing would have been very quick if I hadn't been distracted by an urgent call to fix a cattle crush as the Vet was waiting to do a TB test - no pressure  :bugeye:

Bearings measure out at 20 x 52 x 15 mm and 15 x 35 x 11 mm both being double rubber sealed. £11.28 produced a pair for delivery later in the week which isn't too bad at all  :thumbup:

Now I need to measure up some anti-vibration mounts that hold the oil pressure and charging gauges and the big electrics box as the originals have perished not surprisingly after 47 years !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on September 30, 2019, 02:39:24 PM
So why was there no oil pressure showing on the guage Andrew? Faulty electric sender?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: AdeV on September 30, 2019, 03:39:21 PM
...urgent call to fix a cattle crush...

I could ask my sister (who is a vet), or you, what a "cattle crush" is, but I prefer to imagine it's a crushed ice-based drink, either grass or beefburger flavoured, served in a black-and-white mug with a large stem of hay, a pair of Christmas cracker fake cow horns, and drunk through an udder......

 :scratch:

In all seriousness, it sounds rather nasty, and I hope all concerned emerged unharmed.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 30, 2019, 04:21:28 PM
So why was there no oil pressure showing on the guage Andrew? Faulty electric sender?

Puzzled  :scratch:

Oil pressure is showing in excess of 60 psi whenever the engine is running - there was no pressure showing at initial cranking but that's not really surprising.

Ordered some light blue hammer finish paint and some anti-vibration mounts today. Lets see if the weather lets me trot outside with it and attack it with the steam cleaner in the next day or two :scratch:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on September 30, 2019, 05:05:21 PM
...urgent call to fix a cattle crush...

I could ask my sister (who is a vet), or you, what a "cattle crush" is, but I prefer to imagine it's a crushed ice-based drink, either grass or beefburger flavoured, served in a black-and-white mug with a large stem of hay, a pair of Christmas cracker fake cow horns, and drunk through an udder......

 :scratch:

In all seriousness, it sounds rather nasty, and I hope all concerned emerged unharmed.

A cattle crush is a sort of tight pen holding a cow (or bull) tightly so that various things can be done to it, such as administering various veterinary products, or for instance artificial insemination. In this case it was a TB test:

"The TB skin test is the common name for the Single Intradermal Comparative Cervical Tuberculin (SICCT) test. This skin test is regarded as the definitive indicator of infection by the bacterium that causes TB in cattle - Mycobacterium bovis. It is the required test in the EU and has proved to be a reliable tool worldwide. In Northern Ireland, all herds are tested annually, as a minimum requirement, but some are tested more frequently if they are considered at increased risk.

On Day 1 of the test, two sites are clipped on the neck of the animal. The skin thicknesses at both sites are measured and recorded. Two types of tuberculin, one made from killed Mycobacterium bovis and the other from killed Mycobacterium avium, are injected under the outer layer of the skin of the neck (i.e. into the dermis) at the Ďbovine siteí and the Ďavian siteí respectively. On Day 4 of the test, the skin reactions to the two types of tuberculin are measured and compared. When the bovine site reaction exceeds the avian site reaction by more than 4 mm, the animal is declared a reactor under standard interpretation. When the bovine site reaction measures 1-4 mm more than the avian site reaction, the animal is declared an inconclusive under standard interpretation."

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 02, 2019, 10:53:05 AM
So today's job was to steam clean the engine and chassis, but first a bit of preparation was needed.

A/ Remove exhaust flexy and silencer and blank off the exhaust manifold.

B/ Remove starter motor (the terminal post for the solenoid needs drilling out and re-threading) and blank off it's mounting hole

C/ Wrap the outer end of the main alternator in plastic and tape to stop splashes getting in

D/ Remove the rest of the wiring and associated trunking from the engine.

(The blanking pieces were made from 6 mm steel only because there happened to be an off cut on the plasma table)

Then it was a case of fork lifting it into the rear farm yard, putting it on blocks and dowsing it in 'Gunk'. While the gunk was soaking into the muck I dug out the big steam cleaner and set it up. Then set too with extremely hot water.

Once steam cleaned it didn't look too bad - still loads of flaking paint to deal with but less than before. It then got a second 'Gunking' and steam cleaning to get any bits that I had previously missed.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 02, 2019, 11:06:30 AM
The removable covers for things like the air intake filters I will sand blast in the cabinet blaster and paint as separate items.

Next I removed the remnants of the canvas 'air duct' that had lead hot air from the radiator and fan to the outside world. The canvas had just been cut off and what remained was trapped by 1" wide steel strips retained by self tapping screws that were the devil of a job to remove.

Once that was off I then removed the fan & fan belt mesh cover - I needed to be able to remove the fan belts to measure up for replacements. Again the mesh will be painted as a separate item. The three fan belts are surprisingly narrow - probably originally 3/8" 58.25 " long from the 1972 build date. They are being replaced by 9.7 mm x  1483 mm modern ones - I think that there is enough adjustment to accommodate the slight variance.

While this was going on, the new paint arrived. :thumbup:

I had a go with wire brushes to start the task of getting rid of the rest of the flaking paint. It's not going to be a 'back to bare metal job' as that would take far too long, just get rid of the loose stuff. It's an immensely tiring job and I'm now whacked  :bugeye:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 02, 2019, 11:51:23 AM
I thought that I'd have one last try with the starter motor terminal with the seized grub screw. It was at the point that the D shapes either side of the screwdriver slot were shearing off. I was sure that if I could heat it up it would unscrew - but it's mounted on (inflammable) paxolin and is adjacent to the main terminals that are also mounted in a plastic insulation.

So how to heat it safely.? I hit on the idea of drilling a shallow hole in a rod such that it would just fit onto the body of the terminal post. I then heated the end of this rod to red heat and pressed it briefly onto the post. Rapid application of a screw driver and out she came - success   :clap: So that's one more job off the list.

One oddity that I noticed when steam cleaning: Each cylinder head stud has a cross drilling in the head such that the stud can be seen from the outside world. I can only conjecture that this would allow you to cross drill a seized stud allowing the head to come off, and leave enough stud in the block to weld onto and unscrew. It may be for some other totally different reason, but it's the first time I've seen it on a cylinder head, in fact the only time I've seen this sort of thing was on a wooden boat with a timber keel with a  lead ballast keel bolted  on, and cross drillings were used to put the nuts on the bolts !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 04, 2019, 09:11:07 AM
The charge alternator bearings arrived yesterday so today I re-assembled the alternator - all went well until I realised that I'd left a spacer off - Plonker ! - didn't take too long to take it apart and put the spacer in, and now it spins beautifully on its new bearings. The rear cover was pretty knocked about so it got grit blasted and given a coat of zinc rich primer.

Having got that pesky grub screw out from the starter motor terminal block I wanted to replace it, but what thread? Almost 2 BA but bigger than 4 BA and not metric - what the heck is it? Turns out that it's 8-32 UNC that nice common size! However the gods were smiling on me as it turned out that I have a whole box of them - OK they are Hex socket ones but that's OK. So starter motor cover replaced and it's ready for a lick of paint before re-installing.

Today electrical parts have started arriving. I've sourced an old style Contactum metal single phase consumer unit. I've previously used an identical one with it's innards stripped out, to house 3 phase MCB's and an Isolator so I know that it will take Wylex 3 phase MCBs and I also have a Contactum 30 mA RCD on order so this box will take the low current 3 phase from the main alternator via the RCB and a 6 amp MCB to feed the front panel metering, so at least it is a bit safer than the previous unfused and non RCD'd arrangement.

Also the three new fan belts have arrived and seem to be correct I won't know for sure until the charge alternator is re-fitted.

I spent some time investigating the various sensors and switches on the engine. On the oil feed there is what I presume to be a simple pressure switch, it's open circuit - OK it may well close on pressure but if it doesn't it's a commodity item and easily changed. On the housing for the spigot for the water hose leading to the top of the radiator there is what may be either a temperature switch or possibly an analogue sender - I can't unscrew it yet as it's below the water line, but I will when I drain and fill with anti-freeze (memo to self - order some!). Then on the water / oil heat exchanger that is bolted to the engine there is a tubular heater element  marked 220-250 Volt which is obviously a 'winter warmer' to aid starting, however it is currently open circuit. Its fixing flange nut measures 42.82 mm AF and try as I might I cannot get it unscrewed using large adjustables, and I don't want to ruin the rather thin flange. I may end up cutting a ring spanner on the plasma table, but of course until the engine is drained I can't completely remove it anyway.

The mounting plate for the fuel solenoid must have taken a knock at some time in it's life as it was bent rather Z shaped. I removed it, squashed it flat on the 60 ton press, grit blasted it and gave it a coat of zinc rich paint.

After that it was a case of more paint scraping to try and remove the flaking bits - I can see this could go on for days, but I have to be realistic and say enough is enough and hope the new paint glues down what I've missed  :lol:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 04, 2019, 10:28:25 AM
I have to go visit a friend in his nursing home this afternoon so I was packing up early, but as I was washing my hands it dawned on me - I've drawn up a hexagonal spanner in Autocad before for some project - it just needs the right scale applying and I don't have to start from scratch  :clap:

Turns out that is was a 55.5 mm spanner, so applying a scale factor of 0.77477 gave me a 43 mm spanner that fits nicely. A quick trial and I've undone it one 'flat' - daren't go further or I'll let the water out!

Did I ever say that I LOVE my plasma table  :lol:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 04, 2019, 11:47:06 AM
Is it possible to be toooooo envious of someone?  :)

I do miss working.....we had 3 3.6mw turbine gensets with deutz diesel hydro starters........
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 05, 2019, 10:22:39 AM
John, I don't miss work at all, but I do intend to enjoy my play time  :clap:

Today's Progress:

I decided certain things needed removing as they would be far easier to clean up off the engine and actually will get in the way when it comes to spraying. So I removed the Purolator air filter housings, the instrument panel, all the contents of the relay box (fuel solenoid and starter relays) and also the top of the terminal box for the main alternator - this later item wasn't in anythings way but was difficult to clean being under the diesel tank.

I tested the ammeter and the oil pressure switch which both worked OK  :thumbup:

Then I went into an intensive cabinet blaster blasting session, emerging over two hours later with some cleaned up parts ready for their zinc primer.

Prior to this I made a new window for the cabinet blaster - surprising how a gradual blast etching creeps up on you and you think it's misting - what a difference, I can actually see what I'm blasting !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 05, 2019, 11:39:20 AM
Looking good so far... :thumbup:

I guess by the time you have finished, it'll be worth twice what you paid for it..... :beer:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 05, 2019, 11:46:37 AM
Well John, at least hopefully I'd be able to offer to demonstrate it working were I to put it up for sale, but that's not the intention. As you know I bought it as 'spares or repairs' as a bit of a pig in a poke, as I'd not even seen it in the flesh - sometimes you just have to take the risk and this time it paid off  :thumbup:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 05, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
After supper I removed the metering panel from the main 'box' reasoning that it is easier to remove it than mask it up for spraying. Anyway I need to sort out it's wiring. Essentially it is driven by the three phases and neutral for voltage selection and the hours meter, and the leads from three current transformers for the amps meter, so theoretically it shouldn't be too bad, but those stacked selector switches always confuse me as to what is connected to what and when  :scratch:

The drive cables had to be cut to remove the relay logic board, but anyway the three phases and neutral need feeding through the 30 mA RCD for a bit more safety. The RCD arrived in the post this morning so I can press on and build the sub board.

The panels were retained by self tapping screws - I don't like self tapping screws in this situation, anyway they were quite rusty. I'll probably replace them with nuts and bolts as hand access to the rear is fairly good. I contemplated putting in 'hank bushes' and may still. At least there is no marking out to do, all the 'pilot holes' being there already !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on October 06, 2019, 05:37:42 AM

The panels were retained by self tapping screws - I don't like self tapping screws in this situation, anyway they were quite rusty. I'll probably replace them with nuts and bolts as hand access to the rear is fairly good. I contemplated putting in 'hank bushes' and may still. At least there is no marking out to do, all the 'pilot holes' being there already !

Do you want to try any M4 or M5 press nuts?
https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,11012.msg151330.html#msg151330

(https://madmodder.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11012.0;attach=43060;image)

I have only M3-M5, they are all stainless steel. Only downside is that they need a reamer or pretty good exact diamter drill. EG. M4 is 5.41mm and I need to check if I have correct one for the steel sheet thickness you have. Can't really remember for which gauge I have them. Send msg. if you are interested. I could send you envelope up to weigh limit. They are all stainless steel. Gave aluminium ones to my brother.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Muzzerboy on October 06, 2019, 08:42:12 AM
The "PEM" style inserts mentioned above require precise hole sizes and "proper" tooling to ensure consistent and reliable setting. They rely on the sheet metal flowing into features in the insert. Great for volume production but not something you can do reliably in a home workshop with a hammer for instance, particularly if you are inserting them into steel.

I've used "rivet nuts" to good effect, available from a variety of places and fitted rather like pop rivets. Simple and quick, available in sizes up to M12 or so.
CPC stock them at reasonable prices:
https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=rivet%20nut%20tool (https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=rivet%20nut%20tool)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: WeldingRod on October 06, 2019, 12:19:52 PM
I vote rivet nuts too!  I've had good luck with them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 06, 2019, 12:45:10 PM
Rivnuts here too....

I used them when building up the enclosures for the vfd drives for my mills and lathes....Makes attaching everything so much easier....and easier to dismount parts if the need arises.. :coffee:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 06, 2019, 12:52:59 PM
Thanks chaps for the offers and the suggestions - much appreciated but I've decided on Hank Bushes as I have the kit to fit them.

This morning I set too replacing the eight anti-vibration rubber bobbins that secure the main cabinet to the chassis. Originals were 3/8" UNF x 32 mm tall male male. My replacements are M8 20 mm tall and male female. I saw this as a potential advantage when it comes to fitting, but obviously I needed spacers to make up the 12 mm shortfall. I made eight delrin spacers and 'set too'. It was only then that I discovered that five of the eight originals had been screwed into tapped holes in the chassis rather than held by nuts from below - this necessitated not only unscrewing them but lifting the cabinet even further and drilling out the threaded holes to 8 mm clearance. I got there in the end  :thumbup:

In the process of replacing the rubber bobbins I also removed the cabinet heater, that actually is a green house heater if I'm not mistaken - it doesn't work but I think it's probably a good idea keeping the cabinet dry so will get a replacement.

Then I wanted to sort out the main output terminals as they were flopping about unfixed at one end, not good with this sort of power behind them :bugeye: To my horror I then found that they had only been fixed with self tapping screws one of which had pulled out - the cables attached to these terminals are massively heavy and self tappers are in my opinion definitely NOT correct in this situation. I drilled them out, fitted hank bushes and bolted it back securely.

So, no excuse, get ready for painting. A last go over with a wire brush, a bit of masking of things not to be sprayed, and an acceptance that it's not going to be a perfect job, as the more I look the more bits of flaking paint I see !

So a wipe down with a rag soaked in the 'Universal Thinners' that the paint uses, drag the machine out on the fork lift, spread a tarpaulin to limit the mess on the floor, plonk the machine back on bearers and mix up some paint.

This is when things started to go wrong - I pour paint into a mixing cup through a paint filter funnel but this time I succeeded in overbalancing the cup and funnel dropping a fair amount of paint in the process  :bang:

Clearing up the mess I started spraying and it went quite well - first gun load of paint went on nicely. Diluting the second batch I messed up somewhere as initially it was far too viscous, and when I added a bit of thinners I went too far in the other direction and ended up with some runs. Still this is only the first coat - at least one more to follow and an opportunity to rub down in between.

Still it definitely looks far 'bluer'  :clap:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 06, 2019, 02:10:09 PM
Rivnuts here too....

I used them when building up the enclosures for the vfd drives for my mills and lathes....Makes attaching everything so much easier....and easier to dismount parts if the need arises.. :coffee:

What I've been referring to as Hank Bushes are indeed the same a Rivinuts - seem to work OK if you get the hole sizes correct !

Googling tells me real hank bushes are pressed in from the rear of the panel with a press, whereas mine are set rather like a pop rivet from the front.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on October 06, 2019, 04:19:00 PM
I installed a great many hank bushes as an 'apprentice' sheet metalworker assembling light boxes for a big contract. Popped them in the hole and set them with a small ball pein hammer.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: tom osselton on October 06, 2019, 04:33:56 PM
I never heard of them before I had to look them up.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on October 06, 2019, 04:40:44 PM
Pretty much all good ones needs accurate (reamed hole) and assembly with press to give any good service
http://www.captive-fastener.com/Catalog/Recommended%20Installation%20Procedure.pdf

But it is not diffct to asemble them right - if you have press and can make the anvil.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Muzzerboy on October 07, 2019, 05:51:36 AM
Pekka - what you are describing is different to the Rivinut / rivnut / rivet nut everyone else is talking about. Your product is a solid insert that is NOT deformed itself during insertion, whereas the rivet nut is held in place by deformation of the insert by the tool.

In my multi-decade experience of these parts, the market leader (and originator) is PEM (Penn Engineering) https://www.pemnet.com/fastening-products/pem-self-clinching-fasteners-new/ (https://www.pemnet.com/fastening-products/pem-self-clinching-fasteners-new/). In fact, if you look closely at the Captive Fastener online catalogue, you will see that the product design copyrights are actually owned by PEM.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 07, 2019, 07:21:16 AM
The day started with sorting out three pigs that were due to go on a one way journey (Sorry Will_D !) but when that was finished it was time to get a first coat of paint on all the odds and sods that I'd removed for various reasons.

Spread another tarpaulin and set them up and gave them a first coat - some like the insides of boxes, will only get one coat but other bits like the lids for instance will need another coat.

I used up the gun full of paint catching a few bits on the engine that got missed so it will have to wait a day or two to harden before I can Scotchbrite it and then give it another coat.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 07, 2019, 07:54:22 AM
Whats the paint Andrew? Celly or summat else?

Looking good so far...Any idea how many hours run the unit has clocked?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on October 07, 2019, 07:57:51 AM
Pekka - what you are describing is different to the Rivinut / rivnut / rivet nut everyone else is talking about. Your product is a solid insert that is NOT deformed itself during insertion, whereas the rivet nut is held in place by deformation of the insert by the tool.

In my multi-decade experience of these parts, the market leader (and originator) is PEM (Penn Engineering) https://www.pemnet.com/fastening-products/pem-self-clinching-fasteners-new/ (https://www.pemnet.com/fastening-products/pem-self-clinching-fasteners-new/). In fact, if you look closely at the Captive Fastener online catalogue, you will see that the product design copyrights are actually owned by PEM.

True...Thank you for the link. It all looks familiar:
https://www.pemnet.com/design_info/animation-library/pennengineering-animation-library-nuts/pem-self-clinching-nuts/

.I just saw few picures of similar self clinching nuts and someone mentioned hammering....I have used that pop rivet variety too, they come often as a kit. No idea what pullout forces or torques will be on those kits. They look usefull for blind assembly though.
http://www.swfastener.com/pdf/RIVNUT-TheOriginalRivnut.pdf

O-O

Good work Andrew. Accept alfanumeral "Like". Like Fords at background too.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 07, 2019, 08:03:48 AM
John, the paint is a professional version of the now discontinued 'Hammerite' - it's quick drying and covers a multitude of sins !

The meter is showing about 600 hours if I remember correctly

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: timby on October 07, 2019, 08:09:56 AM
'Hammerite'   is still around,        https://www.hammerite.co.uk/
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 07, 2019, 08:18:54 AM
NO! What is now sold as Hammerite is NOT the original formulation and is a shadow of the original product originally made by Finnigans Speciality Paint.

Like many products it's been 'dumbed down'

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 07, 2019, 08:30:52 AM
We used Hammerite by the 5l tin when I was at ICI.....anything coming into the workshop for repair got a lick, along with an undercoat of Galvafroid.....Genkleen was the solvent of the day for cleaning up afterwards...

But like Andrew says, the latest Hammerite is not what it used to be.....( crap imho....)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: timby on October 07, 2019, 10:00:37 AM
NO! What is now sold as Hammerite is NOT the original formulation and is a shadow of the original product originally made by Finnigans Speciality Paint.
Like many products it's been 'dumbed down'

Yes I expected a reply  like that, I used to manufacture a product and I used gallons bought directly from Finnigans.

It was easy to  spray as  a one coat covering onto my welded product.

 Finnigans  used to say "do not spray below 50 degrees F" but it worked OK when it was near freezing point in my workshop. 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on October 07, 2019, 12:27:59 PM
well that looks 1000% better with a coat of paint Andrew!! Guy who used to spray for me in the "old days" used to carry a clean paintbrush in his pocket when spraying odd shaped machinery like this, and brush out any runs he got, so when you put on the next coat, they dissapear.
Phil.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 07, 2019, 12:52:56 PM
It's certainly better Phil, just don't get close enough to see the detail  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: AdeV on October 08, 2019, 03:09:10 AM
I believe the Americans refer to it as a "20ft paint job" - i.e. it looks good so long as you're at least 20ft away! Obviously a "10ft paint job" is what you're aiming for  :)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 08, 2019, 05:09:37 AM
Up early this morning, gave it a bit of scraping in places and a rub down with a green Scotchbrite before giving it another coat. It's actually come out quite nicely and I reckon it's OK up to about 2 foot away now Ade  :clap:

Photos probably won't look too different from the previous ones but the actual job definitely is better :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on October 08, 2019, 05:35:57 AM
Looks good. I reeks utility and looks loud even when it is not running.

Good job.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: JHovel on October 08, 2019, 10:01:02 AM
So Andrew, what WAS the paint you used then? What brand and sources? You only hinted that it was the "professional" version of Hammerite....  :scratch:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete W. on October 08, 2019, 10:51:50 AM
That looks like a far better paint job than I could ever achieve.

But, for aesthetic reasons, I think it needs some small parts picking out in a different colour.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 08, 2019, 12:44:26 PM
Joe, the paint was from Bitec who feature on eBay:

http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/MDA-Bitec/Hamer-Finish-/_i.html?_fsub=25448221011&_sid=210466991&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Pete, sorry but no, no bits picked out in different colours, it's not a Fairground Ride  :clap:

I decided to investigate the wiring for the upper instrument panel and associated current transformers that feed the main ammeter. As I altered the selector switch I realised something was badly amiss with it. It was so stiff that the plastic shaft was literally doing a 90 degree rotation before it clicked into it's next position. I think I've mentioned before that I'm not keen on these cam switches but obviously I was going to have to dig into it and see if it could be saved. I'd expected a squirt of switch cleaner / lubricant to fix it but it made no difference.

So I carefully documented all the wires to it, and multiple links fitted to it, before gingerly dismantling it. As it came apart it rapidly became obvious that getting it back together wasn't going to be simple as there were several forms of operating cam, and their phasing was individually set by positions on a spline that of course had been lost in the process of dismantling :bang:

I found the stiffness to be a general swelling of several of the plastic parts where operating cams passed though locators, but the main issue was the 'four click' main detente mechanism which resisted all attempts at freeing it up to a workable state.

So what to do :scratch:

Well I could ignore it and not fit the panel - most of it's features are incorporated in the Deep Sea control - but critically not the ammeter, and the Deep Sea unit only derives it's voltage display by calculation from one phase and neutral, whereas the panel measures phase to phase.

So I tested each bit of the panel, the ammeter and volt meter seem to work fine, as does the vibrating reed frequency meter, but the hours meter is making a dreadful racket although it is counting up.

I think the way forward is to make a new panel with just the Voltmeter and Ammeter and devise an alternative switching method. The ammeter is simple just needing a single pole four way switch. (3 phases and off.) The voltmeter is slightly more complicated, switching both sides of the meter to one of three combinations of phases without shorting phase to phase in the process.  Presumably break before make switches are essential. I've not quite got my head around what is needed so any clever chaps are welcome to make suggestions!

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 08, 2019, 01:21:06 PM
As you already have one voltmeter, why not just buy 2 more, and then directly wire them across all three phases? Maybe a bit of a faff having to cut a panel....

You can then see at a glance what each ph is doing without having to mess with a switch ( and the issues with the wiring?  :zap: )
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 08, 2019, 01:52:48 PM
John that certainly is an option and might well be cheaper.

I've worked out that I need a two pole four position 'break before make' switch rated at 500 volts. (Switches far less than an amp)

BTW panel cut outs are a breeze with the CNC plasma table  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 08, 2019, 02:30:14 PM
You could go even cheaper and just have a 240v lamp ph-n  x3.....as a simple go-no-go phase indicator....all the voltmeters are going to show is any slight variance in phase voltage.... :zap:

Depends on how much work you want..... :lol:

The 3.6MW sets we had ( when I was working..), their control panels were not complicated but had enough instrumentation on them for monitoring.... The basics, Volts, Amps,  Frequency.....Turbine Outlet Temp, then a nest of modules for control/sequencing on start-up and a seperate panel for excitation/ syncing....when not in island mode, we would sync them to the incoming site supply for excess power management or if there was a chance of supply failure( quite common )
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 08, 2019, 02:37:10 PM
Turns out Schneider do a pair of specific switches for these applications, and RS Components have them in stock so hopefully arriving in the morning  :clap:

I'll now go and sweep the remains of the original switch into the dustbin and clear my desk :lol:


(not cheap but at least 'the right thing' ! )
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: AdeV on October 08, 2019, 03:11:52 PM
but the hours meter is making a dreadful racket although it is counting up.

Pfff, like you'll hear that over the noise of the engine  :lol: It's probably been making that racket for years!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on October 08, 2019, 06:30:57 PM
I've had those style of switches apart.
Some cherry pickers use them as a function selection switch, and once the original grease starts to dry out, they get a bit hard to turn, which is usually then a prompt for either the operator (or more commonly one of the idiots I work beside  :bang:) to flood them with WD40/release oil/dewatering spray to try 'freeing it off', which then washes out all remaining grease, and they become impossible to turn, as the plastics used just bind against each.

Once you know how they work, you can normally work in some fresh silicon grease using a small screwdriver, provided you can get it to turn. Failing that, you have to strip it down to get grease between the sticking surfaces.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 09, 2019, 11:11:55 AM
MC that switch is now history as it's in my dustbin - I already wasted too much time on it yesterday  :clap:

However Parcelforce delivered the new switches from RSComponents and also a full set of documentation that I won for the Dorman 6LE engine - always best to grab these things as they flit past as opportunities are rare - these were on eBay (naturally).

So I started putting things back together to clear a bit of space in the tractor shed. The main air intake filter housings, starter motor, main alternator end dome and ventilation screen, and the lid to the main alternator connections all went on easily.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 09, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
BUT - when it came to mounting the fuel solenoid plate and solenoid it was a different matter. The axis of the solenoid was a good inch out of line with the axis of the ball joint on the diesel injector pump.

Then I remembered - prior to painting I'd flattened out what appeared to be a random bend in the plate that certainly didn't look as though it was supposed to be there. I suspect that the solenoid has been replaced at some time and this one sits with it's axis higher than the original. I thought just bending the plate and letting the actuator work at an odd angle wasn't very good,  so I cut the plate and inserted a 1" joggle piece to get the heights nearer kilter.

A quick coat of primer and matt black, and while it was drying I sat down and drew up the new meter panel in Autocad. Dropped it as a DXF into SheetCAM, ported it to the CNC plasma table and cut it out in 2 mm steel plate. The original was 1.2 mm but very flimsy as the square meter apertures are nearly as wide as the panel itself.

I left the mounting holes off as I wanted to replace the (previous) self tapping screws with Rivinuts and they had obviously been set out by eye rather than from a drawing so to match the cabinet I had to use the original panel as a drilling jig. Drilled 3.1 mm, opened up to 5.5 mm for a bit of clearance on M4 screws, and fitted Rivinuts in the cabinet face.

A quick grit blast and a coat of silver hammer finish paint left over from the Versatool Cabinet refurbish, and while the paint was drying I returned to the fuel solenoid plate and got it mounted satisfactorily with it's new joggle.

Once the fuel solenoid was fitted I returned to the new meter panel and populated it. All fits rather nicely

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 09, 2019, 12:19:21 PM
The meter panel looks familiar.... :lol:


Nice job.. :bow:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 09, 2019, 12:29:38 PM
The meter panel looks familiar.... :lol:


Nice job.. :bow:

Yes it's lost the Elapsed Hours meter, and the switches are now separate for voltage and current whereas previously one (faulty!) switch did both.

Two more panels to make - one to mount the Deep Sea controller with an eStop button, and one to control the cabinet and water jacket heaters off domestic mains.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: vintageandclassicrepairs on October 09, 2019, 04:48:07 PM
Hi Andrew,
The new ammeter selector switch hopefully came with a proper wiring diagram?
The switch should keep the feed from the two CT's that are not feeding the meter shorted out
It was drilled into us as apprentices on the danger of open circuiting a current transformer !!
Where I worked there were identical looking selector switches and meters on many panels but usually reading kV and kA
From memory (rapidly failing :scratch:) the switch that operated the frequency meter is spring loaded to the off position as the meter is not meant to read continuously ??

John



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 09, 2019, 05:45:30 PM
John,

The ammeter switch wiring 'as given' is in the picture below.

I can understand why a vibrating reed frequency meter perhaps should only be used intermittantly, but I think that previously it was permanently connected :scratch:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 10, 2019, 05:36:27 AM
Ordinarily, ct's would have a burden resistor across the reading side to prevent dangerous voltages being developed across them....when not in circuit... :zap:

Cant really remember about the Hz meters,
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 10, 2019, 12:13:29 PM
John, no sign of 'burden resistors' in the original implementation :scratch:

As an order for some short M5 hex bolts had arrived it was time to re-assemble the engine instrument panel. When taken off I was amused to note that it was only retained in place by the copper oil feed pipe, the three anti-vibration mounts having completely collapsed !

New mounts were not quite the same as the originals so a bit of ingenuity with custom spacers and some bending were called for ! Still it all went back together OK and was re-fixed to the engine and the oil feed pipe re-connected.

Then I turned my attention to the box  that houses the relays for the Fuel Solenoid and the Starter - I'm re-using the original relays as they are in good condition, but I had to pilfer a replacement base for one from the defunct relay based controller, as one was cracked.

Investigating the box brought me to what I assume to be a bi-metallic over temperature cut out that had been mounted in the box, I think it was in series with the power feed to both relays. Well it's open circuit, and on heating it, it fails to change state, so this may well be the reason that the generator failed to start for the previous owner last Christmas!

I then spent some time working out what large crimp lugs I will need to wire the starter, alternator, ammeter etc, and how the wiring conduits would run. The original conduit had been retained by 'P Clips' held with small self tapping screws driven into any near place, including the heads of bolts! I've decided to use 'Girder Clips' and fabricate some suitable tabs to go under bolt heads for them to clip to.

The box is a main junction for many things on the engine, and was originally all joined together with 'chocolate block' connectors. I'm not keen on them and have decided to use proper DIN rail terminals.

So several orders placed for bits and pieces !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 11, 2019, 10:57:00 AM
Today's first job - make a battery tray: up until now the two large batteries have sat on the floor. The machine came with an angle iron stand for them, but I wanted to integrate them onto the machine itself.

I bent up some 2 mm Zintec sheet, and drilled a series of strategic holes. Three 'just in case' drain holes, and a series of through holes to fix it on the right hand 'floor bearer' RSJ. The batteries are very heavy and it cantilevers towards the engine off the 3" RSJ but seems pretty sturdy. Holes in the tray are sized to be an interference fit with the square 'under head' of coach bolts, with the holes in the  RSJ being a clearance fit for these squares. So when finally assembled after painting, each coach bolt will get a thump with a hammer to set it in the sheet metal of the tray, then the nut below the RSJ tightened and the surplus length chopped off.

Then I made a start on the 'Heater Panel' - two heaters both powered from domestic mains - one in the oil / cooling system and one in the cabinet so a new panel was needed to make room for an extra switch and also 'tell tale' indicators to show at a distance that the heaters are on.

One more panel to go and then this lot can have a coat of paint all in one session.

While this was happening several deliveries arrived:

 - a 'Special' eStop button with THREE normally closed contacts -(these are rare and I wanted to avoid having to use a relay)

- a box full of DIN terminals from RS Components

- two 10 metre lengths of 20 mm flexible conduit and one 25 mm length

So now I have the bits to start on the 'relay box' and the Deep Sea Controller panel, but we have an influx of grand children over the weekend so things might get a bit fraught  :bugeye:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 12, 2019, 06:57:34 AM
Had a slight change of plans this morning, and decided to incorporate the on / off switch for the battery charger / maintainer in the same panel that controls the two heaters. After all, all three devices derive their power from the external domestic supply, so it is logical. So a quick redraw and re-plasma-cut to make a new panel.

I also drew up and cut the control panel that will hold the Deep Sea Controller and the eStop switch.

All panels and the alternator mounting bracket got grit blasted and sprayed in silver hammer finish and are currently drying.

That I think is the last replacement panel made up so perhaps I can soon start wiring them up !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 13, 2019, 08:04:03 AM
Not much done today due to family commitments, but I did manage to drain a fair bit of the coolant allowing me to unscrew the engine block heater and water temperature sender for identification and replacement.

I've temporarily put a 1" BSP plug in place of the heater to stop drips.

The sender : I don't know if it is an analog variable resistance, or a thermal switch, but it is 1/2" BSP and bears the following on the hex nut:

DCT
9-9
ZJ

The block heater is 1" BSP and protrudes 2 1/4" into the heat exchanger and bears this on the hex flats:

Bray JJ
ZA2
200/250V
250W
K8

Both are currently open circuit - if you have one in your back pocket please let me know  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: RussellT on October 13, 2019, 01:59:22 PM
I can't help with the details.  I remember being told that Smiths marked everything they ever made with a part number so I surmise it's not one of theirs.  If it's a thermal switch then being open circuit doesn't mean it's dead.  Did it connect to a temperature gauge?

Russell
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 13, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Russell Temperature Sender:

 it's cable disappeared into a maze of wiring within the original 'relay controller' There was minimal electronics to it but it's possible that it had an analog sender with something looking at it and detecting a particular level. It doesn't alter it's resistance when heated to charring temperature (of my bench) so I reckon it's dead !

I've just ordered an analogue sender (50K ohm at 21 degrees C) so eventually I'll probably build a little Schmidt trigger circuit to give a digital 'over temperature' input to the Deep Sea Controller.



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 15, 2019, 02:05:43 PM
Late (workshop) start today due to Porcine Processing, three dismantled fattened pigs having been delivered at 7:00 this morning as IKEA self assembly kits. The commercial butcher that I use cocked up so when I went the two hour round trip yesterday morning to collect, they hadn't been done  :bang: Steam issuing  from my ears convinced him that him delivering today was a 'good idea'  :clap:

So, back to work - still waiting delivery on some vital bits for the engine block heater (which I'm having to fabricate) so . . .

I refitted the charging alternator mounting bracket, the alternator itself, and the three new fan / drive belts which I'm glad to say seem to be correct.

Having done this it was time to investigate alternator regulators. The machine came with a CAV440A , the replacement charging alternator came with a supposedly working CAV440D and I also obtained (again supposedly) another CAV440D as 'new old stock' in a CAV cardboard box.

All were in pretty awful condition with loads of muck, paint and corrosion. I decided to lightly sand blast  the CAV440A which at least allowed me to unscrew it's screws to open it up.

I'd not usually take such drastic action against innocent bits of electronics, but I think that it was justified in this instance! I've read somewhere that the 440D version is 'improved' in that it clamps one of the inputs in the case of faults but I'm struggling to find the refeerence.

So, the 440A had one Lucar connector virtually corroded away, the others have cleaned up well enough that I can re-tin them to stop further corrosion.

All fairly straightforward inside, only really two mystery components - a blue and white block that I think must be a thick film resistor circuit, and one of the three NPN transistors is unmarked. As the other two are 2N3055 and BFY50 I'd be surprised if the unmarked one is not a BC109 or very similar.

Comparing resistance values at the Lucar terminals of all three units they are remarkably similar, so it is actually possible that they all work !

More web hunting to find that reference to the 440D variant - if it proves sensible I may clean one of them up and uses it, otherwise I'll have to replace the riveted male Lucar on the 440A that's so badly eaten away (probably electrolytically)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 15, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
Found it - a US web site:


"The type 440 regulator has three setting depending on the rate of charge required in certain circumstances:
HI Ė Setting for normal ambient temperatures.
MED - Setting for countries with high ambient temperatures where there is a risk of battery overheating.
LO - Setting for countries with high ambient temperatures where there is battery gassing. Once batteries have
cooled the setting must be returned to MED or HI.

Initially the 440 regulator was fitted, but was superseded by the 440A that could work at higher temperatures.
Both types had the disadvantage that should the connection to the LO, MED or HI terminals fail then too high a
voltage will be given out resulting in excessive alternator output. The 440D, which is directly interchangeable
with the earlier regulators, has a fail-safe arrangement. In the event of a similar fault the output voltage is held
down."

Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?260872-Battery-Charging-System-Help-Required-To-Understand/page2&s=c9f86ab41675f20586bc5700b1919f2b#O4RPPR0gII7CcFOc.99
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 15, 2019, 03:54:58 PM
After supper I had a go at re-tinning the Lucar connectors on the CAV440A. Not come out too badly, certainly functional, but there is deep pitting in places stopping full wetting. I left the badly corroded terminal strictly alone.

Then I gave the 'new old stock' CAV440D a light blasting - no significant corrosion on this one - the light blasting didn't even have to remove the tinning so I suspect it's declared 'NOS' status is probably true.

The other CAV440D that came with the new charging alternator has one terminal (MED) in a very similar poor condition to the CAV440A that had the High terminal corroded.

I understand that these regulators switch the field at a reasonably high frequency and this has probably contributed to the terminal corrosion seen.

Comparing the internals there is very little difference between them, a few resistors and an extra diode.

So the 'New Old Stock' regulator wins the beauty competition and is the one I will initially install, holding the others in reserve in case it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 16, 2019, 10:45:51 AM
I decided to give the CAV440D regulator a coat of paint before installing it to stop it's casing going all furry like the others - not Bling I promise you  :clap:

It actually had three coats of acrylic can paint with accelerated drying under the workshop hot air hand drier - this dryer gets used far more for this than hands - I prefer a towel !

The real job of the day is to make a new water jacket heater. I've not been able to source a replacement for the original so need to make one. I had a 1" copper bar to hand, a 1" BSP male/male nipple that is through bored 26 mm, I'd ordered a 1" BSP Stop End cap, and a 10 mm cartridge heater 50 mm long 250 volts 200 watts and had to hand a 20 mm male conduit nipple to give a wiring connection point so we need to set too.

I wanted to get the 25.4 mm copper bar to be a snug fit in the 26 mm male/male nipple prior to brazing, and had hoped that knurling the copper would squeeze it out enough to swell by the 0.6 mm needed, but it was just too loose, so in the end I made up a brass shim packer with dimples to hold them concentric as heat was applied.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 16, 2019, 10:55:44 AM
So I cut a slice off the 1" copper bar, faced it, and bored it out 10 mm leaving a 4 mm wall at the far end.

Then fitting my packing shim I set too with the oxy-acetylene, got a bit over enthusiastic trying to ensure full flow of the braze, and manged to melt the end of the 1" BSP male / male nipple - Oops  :bang:

Never mind, probably recoverable - so I mounted it up on the lathe, skimmed it back to good brass and ran a 1" BSP die nut down it - the threads on the nipple were too long anyway so I don't think that this will be a problem.

A good old clean up, then I bored out and tapped the 1" BSP cap to take a 20 mm conduit nipple, which I screwed in and sweated in to stop it unscrewing. The original heater has an integral ceramic terminal block, but the new has flying leads, so a terminal box will fix onto this 20 mm conduit stub.

Altogether not perfect but I think that it will do the job.



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on October 16, 2019, 01:25:29 PM
Entirely up to your usual standard Andrew! Excellent work!
Phil
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on October 16, 2019, 04:47:12 PM
Excellent work, and imagine the hours of entertainment you've provided the next owner when they search catalogues of OEM parts looking for THIS heater's replacement :D :D :D
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 16, 2019, 04:49:01 PM
Thanks Phil  :thumbup:

The advantage of my re-design is that the heater element can be replaced without draining all the coolant. I'll probably eventually put it in with transistor heat sinks compound, although it's a nice tight sliding fit.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 16, 2019, 04:53:08 PM
Pete that did actually occur to me  :clap:

There is another Dorman powered generator on ebay at the moment, and close examination of the pictures reveals that it's heater has failed at some time and been replaced by a 1" BSP plug, as of course mine has at the moment !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on October 16, 2019, 06:12:28 PM
Are the heaters cheap? If they are I'd be tempted to buy a spare and bag it up in the cabinet.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 17, 2019, 02:28:44 AM
£10 including postage, and yes thatís not a bad idea  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 17, 2019, 11:37:42 AM
Today the plan was to measure the Temperature Sender Characteristic Curve to aid me designing a small circuit to trip at a set upper temperature (Overheat Shutdown)

But first I needed to source some 'Jumper Bars' for my DIN terminals - these things are simply a copper bar with holes at a suitable spacing that when installed parallel up adjacent DIN terminal blocks. I'd ordered some up from RSComponents with the terminal block, and despite being listed as correct for these 8 mm wide 6-10 mm csa cable terminal blocks they were in fact the wrong spacing :bang:

I've had a 'technical query' logged with their help desk since Monday trying to source the correct part, and yesterday they came back with a manufacturers part number but they don't stock them  :bang: And nor does anyone else in the UK unless you want to buy 500 off !!! (I only need four 'two hole' lengths!)

OK change of plan for the day - MAKE SOME. No copper strip to hand, but slightly thicker brass should suffice sliced off a bit of chunky angle that was in the scrap box. No great problem, drill a row of  holes spaced at 8 mm, slice them of on the band saw, cut them into 'two hole' lengths, clean them up and tin them.

Using the screws and spacer collars from the 'wrong' ones proved the collars to be too long - so all had to be cut down to 8 mm l.o.a. Altogether not a complicated job but very fiddly and time consuming.

. . . got there in the end !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 17, 2019, 11:49:07 AM
Shame I wasnt in work, I could have gotten them for you..... :lol:
But, hey ho...,such is life.. :smart:

Looking good as ever Andrew, cant be far off being finished.....? :beer:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 17, 2019, 11:56:23 AM
So now perhaps I can get on with what I'd planned to do  :scratch:

I attached the Temperature sender to a 'Type K'  thermo-couple with a hose clip, and wired it to my Comark temperature meter and Fluke V.O.M. on ohms. Firstly I dipped the assembly in a boiling kettle getting 160 ohm and 98.7 degrees Centigrade (It was only later that I noticed that the Comark battery needed changing, but for my purposes this IS OK)

Then I transferred the assembly into a Pyrex flask, poured in the almost boiling water from the kettle, and sat down to plot a 'cooling curve' - this way hopefully the sensor temperature will be a true analogue of it's installed state.

Then I plotted the figures in Excel producing the attached chart.

I've decided to use an LM393 comparator chip and it turns out that eBay abounds with them conveniently mounted on a PCB with a 'set point' twiddle pot. I am going to mount one of these circuits inside a DIN module case along with a miniature relay to give me a closed contact on 'overheat' - the twiddle pot on the PCB will be replaced by another glued in the DIN module case and accessible through a hole for setting.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 17, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Have you considered the case of an open circuit...? Your detector triggers on a rise in temperature wich correlates with a fall in Ohms....

If you have a wire break then it wont trigger?
The relay wont close and no shutdown....

Better to have a function that is failsafe? Ok we're not talking SIL levels here but some protection is better than none?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 17, 2019, 04:34:13 PM
It's a point to consider but it doesn't overly concern me considering the intermittent use this is going to see occasionally driving my induction furnace for maybe an hour or so.

Without managing to source a suitable sensor with a curve opposite to this one I don't really see any other option, and this one was the only one I could find on the correct 'root stock' ie 1/2" BSP. My preference would have been an on/off switch operating at about 100 deg C - this would have avoided all the faffing about with electronics, but I couldn't find a suitable  one!

I could get really fancy and use another controller input to sense that the sensor is passing current but that is getting over complicated even for me
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: RussellT on October 18, 2019, 05:41:40 AM
It's too late now but here are a couple of links.  I had to look as I was surprised you couldn't find one.  Mind you at that price I'd probably be mucking about with electronics anyway.

https://www.asap-supplies.com/high-temperature-warning-switch-95-degrees-1-2-bsp

https://pressurevacuumlevel.co.uk/product/ts-tsp-temperature-switch/

Russell
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 18, 2019, 10:11:56 AM
Russell thanks for the links - yes I admit I'd found one or two at very silly prices!

John's comments set me thinking - I'd thought that the Deep Sea controller would only take a closed contact as an error signal, but closer reading of the manual, if I'm interpreting it correctly, is that the error state can be defined as open or closed, the open obviously being safer as John points out.

Now over temperature switches intended for surface mounting are readily available - in deed I've just bought a 70 deg C one to put in the relay box to cut off the fuel and starter relay feeds in case of fire. If I could somehow use the body of the original sensor to mount one of these all would be well.

I decided to eviscerate the device - I used an old 1/2" end mill naughtily in the tail stock chuck, and chomped out all the filling gunge and eventually the sensor itself emerged on the end of the end mill!.

Then I turned a slug of brass to fit inside, along with a platform to fit on top to take the actual switch - all a bit crude but it should work.

Then ONCE MORE ! I managed to melt it all while brazing it together. I've run out of proper silver solder and have been using Harris Phoson which has a melting point of  732 to 815 degrees C which is obviously too high for the brasses that I've been using. (It's excellent with copper and needs no flux - beloved of the Heating and Ventilating Engineers!)

So - what to do? Well stop being so miserly, dig out that nice big bar of silicon bronze (I think) that's been in my stash for years, and make one from fresh.

So into the Beaver CNC mill to have a hex put on one end (just using the machine as a dividing head) then make the rest in the lathe. Came out OK - no brazing required so no more oops moments.

Now the switch is obviously not in the water but gets it's heat by conduction through the bronze bar which IS immersed in the cooling water, so there may be a degree or so difference actually at the switch, but these switches are available in a whole range of trip temperatures so if necessary I can put a 95 in rather than a 100 for example.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on October 18, 2019, 12:39:27 PM
I was just going to suggest those temperature switches, as I happened to replace one at work this morning on a driveline compressor, with a new modified sealed switch unit. It's only taken this supplier about 15years to finally come up with something that might last longer than a couple years on the underside of a vehicle!

I'd like to know where they got the new switch, but it had been bonded into a bit brass/bronze (I'd guess about 3/4" thread, but it's an Italian compressor so it could quite easily be metric..), with no obvious information.
I'd guess the switch came with flyleads, as it had very flexible wiring in a high temperature sheath, with a superseal connector heatshrunk on the end.

Whatever it is, they must be available cheap from somewhere, as the whole assembly only cost about £60, whereas the old unit which was a brass/bronze plug with one of those surface mounted switches attached with some heat transfer compound, used to cost about £80.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on October 18, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
Just done a bit googling, and I'd guess what I fitted today was something like this - https://cpc.farnell.com/microtherm/t11a10005u112l310100/thermal-switch-nc-100-c/dp/SN36221 stuck in the fitting, then held in with resin/epoxy.

The price would certainly explain why it was cheaper than the old surface mount switch.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 18, 2019, 01:24:26 PM
Yes there's a version of that type of switch on ebay that caught my eye - but when these things are exposed on vehicles or plant I'm not at all keen on flying leads - once ripped off that's it!

It'll be interesting to see how the surface mount switch survives vibration fixed to the engine - not that there is much, it runs pretty smoothly. Dead easy to change though now, just two M3 screws and no need to drain down :thumbup:

We had almost the exact same devices bolted to the side of the combustion chambers for the gas tumble driers in my launderettes and had remarkably little trouble with them
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on October 19, 2019, 12:34:53 PM
LIKE!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 19, 2019, 01:03:23 PM
Thanks Phil  :thumbup:

I spent today wiring up the relay box and documenting it. Far easier to do this on the bench than mounted on the machine down close to the floor, especially  with my varifocals!

It's a useful sub assembly that pre-determines various conduit runs, and as at long last I've found a source for metal conduit clips that are wide enough to drill out to mount on existing engine bolts (ordered but not arrived) I can soon get on with the wiring proper.

(I've printed and laminated a copy of the picture below to go in the box lid to avoid future head scratching)

I mounted the mains cabinet tubular heater today, mainly to get it off the bench and out of the way !

Meanwhile I'm giving consideration to how to get power OUT of this box of tricks. Simple I'd thought, just mount a 125 Amp 3 phase, neutral and earth 'Commando' socket on a panel by the terminal block. But it's not actually that simple, as then you can't close the door :bang:

Alternatives are to :

A/ mount a socket on the side of the main cabinet, but then it will be vulnerable being the widest part of the machine or

B/ Cut a hole in the door that exposes a suitably mounted socket that slightly protrudes when the door is closed or

C/ mount a socket on the door itself on flexible leads

Option A I think is bound to cause tears in the future as the machine is moved about. Option  C is neatest but at this sort of power level leads are not that flexible !

So at the moment I'm thinking option B but would very much welcome comments from anyone reading this.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 19, 2019, 01:21:05 PM
I cant really add any ideas for power connections, 125Amps for a TPN socket is a bit wieldy....

As this is supposed to power the  furnace, why not hard wire the two....?
BUT, You should consider some protection relays for the genset.....Undervolts, overcurrent...etc..

Our 3.6 MW turbine sets were used in island mode ( there were two originally....) one duty one standby, and auto start....but one day someone decided to start a compressor ( a refrigeration system..)  that was driven by a 6.6kv motor rated at 2.1MW.....suffice to say, the load imposed on the genset caused the shearing of the pins on the shaft coupling as the motor tried to start....
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 19, 2019, 01:35:58 PM
John, under / over volt monitoring is no problem as the Deep Sea control has that built in and is just a case of setting the right parameter.

I'm not absolutely certain but I think that the output breaker by Merlin Gerin is set to trip at 150 amps. I need to investigate further.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: russ57 on October 20, 2019, 12:27:18 AM
Could you mount it behind the box, so it is accessible from the side, but recessed for protection?

Another little fabrication job - keep the thread going for another few days....

Russ

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 20, 2019, 03:08:53 AM
Russ thanks for that idea, itís certainly one to chew on.

Sorry to disappoint, but thereís little prospect of this thread fading out for a while yet (unless I do!) as thereís loads to do still  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: modeng200023 on October 20, 2019, 03:30:14 AM
Andrew, I'm wondering what you do in your spare time  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 20, 2019, 11:37:20 AM
Well actually NOT much spare time today as we had guests, all very nice but you trip over them !

I did at least get a bit of time to turn the 'Meter Panel' into a pre-wired module awaiting fitting
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 21, 2019, 07:31:30 AM
Still awaiting for bits to arrive, but I did manage to move the main Neutral connection to allow me room to mount the modified consumer unit that I'm using as protection for the controller and meters. At least now there is 30 mA protection for user facing controls whereas previously as built by Puma there was none.

I think I've solved the output socket location issue. So far I've been working with the door removed, and it didn't dawn on me that the door is not full width, there is a panel on the right of the door about 8 or 9 inches wide that is still exposed when the door is shut. Ideal place for a socket, but I realised really you want an isolator as disconnecting 125 amp connections without switching the load off makes BIG flashes ! But the main isolator is inside the door  :bang:

. . . never mind, looking at my stash of 125 amp plugs and sockets I discovered a humongous switched interlocked 125 amp unit that will just squeeze onto that panel !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 21, 2019, 03:29:45 PM
This afternoon I got the huge output socket / isolator fixed (6 x M6 Rivinuts) and measured up to get the cables to wire it up. Now the generator came with some very over specified cables about 3 metres long - by my measurements they are 150 CSA, and believe it or not to get round the various bends it's 2.5 metres from generator terminals to this socket, so I'd need 10 metres - now 35 mm CSA cable is just under £6 per meter and is marginal, and I've not had a quote for 50 mm CSA but it will be significant, so I've decided to go with the 'overkill' cables - after all the electrons won't mind a bit more elbow room  :clap:

But a consequence of this decision is that the 50 mm brass bush I'd got to pass the cables through the cabinet wall into the switch / socket no longer is big enough. 63 mm bush on order with appropriate hole saw which works out much cheaper than buying new cables!

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 22, 2019, 12:35:50 PM
More DIN rail terminals arrived this morning, so I was able to complete the switch panel as a 'module' - this is the panel that distributes 'domestic' mains to the cabinet heater, engine heater, and battery charger to keep the generator ready to start when called for.

I also fitted a 16 amp 'Commando' input socket to the cabinet below the 125 amp output socket (socket angles ensuring that they don't clash) and then installed and tested the switch panel having put a bit of trunking in to tidy up it's wiring.

Then I AT LAST got round to putting power on the Deep Sea controller on the bench to prove that it was actually alive - rather late in the process and I'd be stumped if it wasn't, but all seems well - it went through a start up sequence reporting it's software issue, then went into 'wait' mode waiting for a button press - phew it works, I was rather dreading this test.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on October 22, 2019, 01:57:05 PM
getting close to finished Andrew, I am having to use extreme self control to prevent over-excitement at the prospect of an induction furnace. Molten metal on tap! you lucky man! As it happens I need to melt some copper, but I am working towards it too, though sadly, it will be less refined than an induction jobbie. Keep up the good work!
Phil.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
Of course Phil I have no certainty that the electronics of the Induction Furnace still works :scratch: It's well over ten years since I used it  . . . . all those capacitors going dry . . . etc etc.

definitely a softly softly tip toe towards it sort of approach or else  :zap:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: russ57 on October 22, 2019, 04:52:32 PM
That second photo with the domestic input socket certainly puts the output into scale!

Russ

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 22, 2019, 04:56:55 PM
Oh yes Russ it's certainly a whopper, and it only just fits without fouling the door handle as it turns. I want to replace that handle with one with a lock and I'll have to be careful that it's no longer.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 23, 2019, 07:14:39 AM
Yesterday my boxes of 20 and 25 mm conduit 'half clips' arrive. These are the clips for the flexible conduit that is draped all over the engine and they have to fix on existing bolts so needed to be wide enough to drill out to 10 mm. They also need a 'backing plate' in places where they are in free air to stop the conduit falling out of the back of the clip.

I cut a batch of backers and after a clean up gave them a coat of zinc paint.

Only had time to fit one conduit - the one for the fuel solenoid, but they seem to work OK  :thumbup:

Social duties stop more play today  :(
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 23, 2019, 07:49:07 AM
Looking very tidy now... :clap:  :thumbup:

How inconsiderate that social duties take precedence over 'toy time'   :coffee:   Mind you we have to look after 5 grand kids during the week ( not all at the same time... :drool: ) so my time playing with toys is a little stretched...But I still get the opportunity to read posts on here... :ddb:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 23, 2019, 08:57:42 AM
Only five grandchildren John, you're slipping - I've TEN  :bugeye:

We've just had the twin six year old girls and their brother for an extended (exhausting) weekend, but they've now gone to my son in Houston, and were last seen (on Facebook) in the cockpit of the BA plane with the pilot so I hope the poor chap is OK  :ddb:

Another  twelve year old grandson arriving tomorrow for a week - don't you love the school holidays !

. . . but I'm DETERMINED to get this generator finished so that I can move on to the next stage in this project.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 23, 2019, 10:50:52 AM
I did actually manage to escape for 90 minutes this afternoon, and assembled and documented what I'm calling the 'Gathering' DIN rail assembly. This is essentially where all the modularised parts get connected together, and it also houses the fuses for L1 and 24V that go to the Deep Sea Controller.

It takes a surprising amount of time to put these things together !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 23, 2019, 11:38:19 AM
Any reason for the Blue Klippons?   :scratch:

(Normally used on IS circuits  :zap:)

Earth ones normally Green/Yellow...

Or did you run out of the beige ones? :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 23, 2019, 01:05:53 PM
They were what RS had at as reasonable price that would accept 10 mm csa cable. The beige ones are up to 4 mm iirc. As for Green / Yellow, yes it would be nice but minimum orders hit you in the pocket!

RS seem to be in a right mess in the DIN terminal department, with catalogue errors and incomplete ranges stocked. It wasn't like this when they were Radio Spares and only had one location and that was in the City just round the corner from my then office !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on October 23, 2019, 02:17:59 PM
St. Martin Legrand, wasn't it? Back in the day when their catalogue was about as thick as the News of the World  :D
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete W. on October 23, 2019, 04:45:33 PM
About 23 years ago, I bought lots of DIN terminals from a branch of Wades, the electrical wholesalers.  (I admit I wasn't using the size of cables you mention.)  I never got stung with minimum order quantities but that branch of Wades, if I remember correctly, had an activity building cabinets for customers so DIN terminals were a staple item. 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 24, 2019, 03:32:06 PM
A day of three parts today !

The loins of bacon had had their allotted time curing so the first job was to open up their curing bags, rinse off the excess cure, and set them out to dry to form a 'pelicule', only then could  go and play.  After about an hour they were 'cling filmed' and put in the freezer to stiffen up for slicing. Now I can play !

Firstly I fitted the engine over temperature switch and the engine block heater, using Loctite pipe sealer on the joints. Then I added the 'beezer' round junction box for the heater, and ran it's conduit and cable back to the switch panel sockets. Then it was a case of running various conduits to all points needed, which I think I now have. One necessitated removing the ol filler assembly from the side of the engine, so I can definitely confirm that it has a crank shaft, as I've seen it  :lol:

At this point My Hermes delivered the new 63 m brass bush  so I was able to get on and fit it. The cables that will go though it are seriously difficult to bend - in fact I'm thinking I may need to use my pipe bender on them, and because of this I wanted the bush mounted as high in the output socket enclosure as possible to give more space to  manipulate them, Needless to say the moulding of the enclosure didn't have a hole suitably  high so I had to do a bit of sculpting with my air detail filer to create a starting spot for the drill. After this drilling the big hole went without too much drama and the bush was fitted. Glad to say the cables now pass through reasonable easily.

Right - help now at hand to return to the bacon and start slicing the chilled loins (6 mm rashers) and vacuum packing them - all 106 packs of 6 rashers. This took a couple of hours.

Then, moment of truth, fill her back up with antifreeze and water (memo to self I really MUST buy a bigger funnel!). So theoretically it was now safe to power up the block heater, so I did   :bugeye:

The engine was sitting at 11 degrees according to my I/R thermometer, and the bit around the block heater quite quickly rose to 13 degrees so I went in for supper leaving it to heat up. On return the actual heater housing was up to 30 degrees and although perhaps, maybe, possibly, the water jacket was a bit warmer, it certainly wasn't   as much as I'd expect, and the temperature gradient from heater block to the rest of the housing is too steep for my liking. I strongly suspect that there is an airlock in the system, and I need to run the engine to circulate the water a bit and get the air out, but I can't do that at the moment as the exhaust manifold is still blanked off from spraying.

I then wired up the starter solenoid as that is one conduit with only one function and relatively simple to do.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 25, 2019, 12:17:44 PM
I was told that I had to be out at 10.30 this morning 'to give advice on concrete crushing' - why me  :scratch:

Anyway before the allotted hour I managed to make up new heavy duty battery leads using cable from the originals and terminations from Vehicle Wiring Products, and install them and wire in the starter motor solenoid.

When I got back early afternoon I had a good head scratching deciding the best place to locate the 'Gathering DIN Rail' and how to get cables to and from it. It ended up mounted vertically on one of the cabinet reinforcing rails, and being serviced by slotted trunking and flexible conduit. Then I made up the seven way cable form that runs from the relay box to the cabinet, and pulled it through. Quite stiff this one as it contains two 10 mm CSA cables.

I had major difficulty getting self adhesive pads and trunking to stay glued despite rigorous cleaning down with IPA. In the end I changed to using acetone as a cleaner, and ran a hot air gun over the bits that were to be glued, as I strongly suspect that I was getting condensation between cleaning and gluing. Seems OK at the moment but we'll see if it's all fallen off in the morning !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 25, 2019, 12:22:59 PM


I had major difficulty getting self adhesive pads and trunking to stay glued despite rigorous cleaning down with IPA. In the end I changed to using acetone as a cleaner, and ran a hot air gun over the bits that were to be glued, as I strongly suspect that I was getting condensation between cleaning and gluing. Seems OK at the moment but well see if it's all fallen off in the morning !

Well if you think about it....as the ipa/ acetone evaporates, it cools the surface....( try it on the back of your hand..) the surrounding air will condense out any moisture in it, if the temperature is cool enough....

Early morning dew ring any bells?  :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: philf on October 25, 2019, 05:17:27 PM
 :3m do a primer for double sided tape. I don't know what's in it!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 26, 2019, 02:50:29 AM
:3m do a primer for double sided tape. I don't know what's in it!

Stuff that makes stuff stick to it?..... :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: philf on October 26, 2019, 05:23:30 AM
:3m do a primer for double sided tape. I don't know what's in it!

Stuff that makes stuff stick to it?..... :lol:

John - I know now!

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8lzNvl82eM8txnv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS-- (https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8lzNvl82eM8txnv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--)

Phil.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 26, 2019, 06:06:41 AM
Its pretty nasty stuff..., :scratch: Cyclohexane.....

We used that a lot at ICI......

I like the bit in Section3 ' Acrylate polymer......CAS Nbr.....trade secret...lol...
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 26, 2019, 11:38:51 AM
Significant progress today  :thumbup:

Firstly I re-attached the exhaust / silencer assembly so that I could start the engine. Then, temporarily wiring a fuel solenoid switch and dabbing a wire to drive the starter solenoid I started the engine and let it run for a minute or so just to make sure all was well - it was, and no water leaks after introducing antifreeze.

Then I terminated both ends of the seven way cableform that I pulled through from the relay box to the control cabinet. Moving on to the current transformers I identified all their connections, replaced the eyelets at the transformer end as the originals were rather corroded, and wired them to the Gathering DIN rail terminals.

Then I made up cable forms for the voltage measuring side and current measuring side of the Meter Panel, wired them to the Gathering DIN rail terminals and installed said panel.

Moving my temporary fuel solenoid switch and 'dabbing wire'  onto the Gathering terminals I then started the engine from within the control cabinet and was able to prove out the wiring for the phase to phase voltage measuring. and frequency meters - all seems to work OK :thumbup:

At this point I can't prove the current measuring side as I can't yet put a load on the generator.

I have yet to wire the oil pressure and engine over heat switch back to the relay box, and similarly the wiring for the charging alternator and ammeter need wiring back to the relay box. Wires for these functions already go from the relay box to the gathering DIN rail. Then of course the big step is then to wire in the Deep Sea Control to do away with my fuel solenoid switch and 'dabbing wire' !

In all quite a long day but a satisfying result.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: JerryNotts on October 27, 2019, 05:53:29 AM
John,
That's because we used to make it! (Cyclohexane).


Warning Potentially OFF TOPIC!

If you can stop yourself falling asleep in the process it's possible to see why the chemical industry objected strongly when the Commision were persuaded by the Swedish commissioner at the time to take on the regulation of chemicals. Bear in mind the size of the various national chemical industries across the EU at the time. Germany which also objected was/is the biggest.
A 37 page safety data sheet is pointless. It probably takes longer to read, look up all the references and understand than to realise that almost nobody has the facilities to implement the precautions. As Andrew could conceivably be ranked as a 'Professional' user, but certainly not an 'Industrial' user under current REACH Regulations he would have been provided with a current Safety Data Sheet at the time of receipt of the goods, at the latest.  There are three types of users under REACH, the third being ' Consumer' i.e. the man in the street, under the old UK terminology.
You may wonder why it is important for Industrial and Professional users  to read an SDS. The moment you realise this potential deficiency is when an accident occurs in which you are involved in any way: as soon as an HSE inspector asks to see the container of the product which will(?) carry the safety label. This will tell her/him that you should have an SDS  thus you carried out a risk assessment and are working in the prescribed manner. All very well in theory but at what cost.

And to complete this lecture: it is possible to see that despite the manufacturers claims the document is actually a re-hash of a US MSDS ( Material Safety Data Sheet)  The NJTS Reg No (New Jersey Toxic Substance Number) strictly should not be used but perhaps regulators working in the field have learnt to be tolerant of such things, even if they have seen it.  There are also a Americanisms which help give the game away, including one of my personal pet hates 'odor'.

Sorry to be a bore, just re-living old habits.

Jerry  :loco:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 27, 2019, 02:03:38 PM
A day of contrasting highs and lows today.

I started off on a concentrated effort to pull all the cables through that interconnect the Alternator, it's Regulator, the Ammeter, the Over Temperature Switch, and the Oil Pressure Gauge. I'd not been looking forward to this as some cables have to start off in one conduit then swap to another to avoid joins - examples being the 10 mm csa heavy ammeter cables, and the bundles were pretty much on the limit of what you can pull through the flexible conduit, and especially the reduced diameter of their terminations.

All went reasonably well - I decided to wire the CAV 440 regulator on it's 'Low' setting for the moment - apparently this sets the regulated voltage to the low end of the spectrum.

Now in the final implementation the 'W/L' (warning light) connection is sourced from the Deep Sea Control, but for testing I wired in a bulb. This is supposed to be about 2.5 watts at 24 volts, and the only low wattage 24 volt bulbs that I had to hand were telecoms 'wedge bulbs' drawing all of 20 mA - but I tried it anyway. The W/L input is intended to give an initial current flow through the field winding to start the alternator generating, and when it does the light goes off as now both ends are at the same voltage.

So - the moment of truth - start the engine having noted what the battery voltage was to begin with and watch what happens. Initially nothing - the light stayed on, the battery voltage was unchanged, and nothing showing on the ammeter. Then after perhaps 45 seconds the light went out, the battery volts started to rise, and the ammeter showed a ten amp charging rate. Every subsequent starting has resulted in normal charging activity.

My conclusion is that the alternator rotor had little residual magnetism, as I've dismantled it and anyway it's sat unused for many years on the auto-electricians shelf as the bearings were bad. The 20 mA was not really enough, but gradually the alternator 'bootstrapped' itself - I've no doubt that the correct 2.5 watt bulb, which would be drawing about 100 mA would have got it going pretty well instantly.

So, on a high I decided to wire in the Deep Sea Controller. Firstly I wired up a cable form to make connection easier, fixed the panel in, and found that I'd made the cable form about 12" too short to lay nicely in the trunking  :bang: I decided to connect it up anyway 'as the crow flies' fashion just to prove that it worked, and then I made a BIG mistake. Friends arrived and rather than downing tools, I rushed to finish the connections and must have got something wrong  :bang:

Connecting the battery the starter solenoid instantly pulled in, then the display went blank - no life - a dead controller  :bugeye:

Now I have subsequently powered it up on the bench, and it is starting up normally, but it's 'switch outputs' are sitting at 8 volts (it runs off 24) so something is sick. I will investigate further, but also I've sourced a replacement - at least if the original heals itself I'll have a spare  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 27, 2019, 02:32:05 PM
Jeeez...! Where did you dig up that old Fluke dvm from? :lol:

Shame about the controller going south... :zap: :bang:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 27, 2019, 02:36:59 PM
That Fluke has served me well man and boy ! I actually have three of them in strategic locations around the site  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 27, 2019, 02:42:10 PM
That Fluke has served me well man and boy


I was issued with exactly the same model, when I was a tech at British Gas working at the terminal...(32 yrs ago....)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 27, 2019, 04:14:05 PM
Well it's newer than my Avo 8  :clap:

Been playing withe the Deep Sea 3110 controller. All very odd, I've wired a pair of those 'wedge bulbs' up to simulate the Fuel & Starter solenoids and despite being able to initiate a 'start sequence' neither ever come on, and eventually it times out 'failed to start after programmed number of attempts'. Now I can make it fail by programming the  oil pressure switch inversely - it thinks that the engine failed to stop ! And even more oddly Emergency Stop has no effect what so ever - I can program it to operate either on Opening (ie usual way) or closing, and neither have any effect :scratch:

I should perhaps mention that I have downloaded the Deep Sea configuration utility that lets me talk  to it via USB. Opening it up, the innards are the usual amorphous surface mount devices with little indication of function, but it looks as though it's core functions are working but elements of it's input / output have hit the deck  :(
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 27, 2019, 05:11:09 PM
Does it need to see a live speed input from a speed probe?
What about gen volts from the alternator? ( either single or 3 ph...)
I see it has 6 dig ins....some are user configurable...are these active?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 27, 2019, 05:38:10 PM
John it can be set to use an inductive pick up, but currently is set to monitor engine speed deriving it from one phase of the generated output and a fiddle factor. Yes the digital  inputs can be individually configured for sense of the contact, and action on the alarm. However the eStop one is fixed apart from the sense of it's contact (which I've tried both ways)

Of course as it is not driving either the fuel solenoid or the starter relay, not sensing speed is rather academic as it won't start anyway!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 27, 2019, 05:47:56 PM
But....
Is it looking for gen volts at cranking speed....
So if a start is initated, it would energise the fuel solenoid, and the starter motor, it would then expect the starter to turn the engine over and as its directly coupled, be looking for an increase in speed or a rise in alternator volts?

The eStop is a puzzler unless there's an issue with the input circuitry.... But then I wouldnt expect it to use software to shut the unit down....
What heppens to the 'fuel solenoid' or lightbulb... When it is energised and you toggle the estop input?
Does it do anything? Like go off or remain on?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 28, 2019, 03:57:18 AM
The point is JOHN that at the moment it is never energizing either output either in the machine or on the bench. So no cranking so no generated volts anyway !

So I reckon that itís kaput . When the new one arrives and Iíve made a back up of its current state I will reflash the faulty one, but not until number two is in my hand!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 28, 2019, 04:12:09 AM
If the software is corrupt it wont help will it?

Are you flashing the new one with the same code?....  :zap:

If the code is ok, cant you just reflash the unit anyway? Got nothing to lose as its broke anyway..... :scratch:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 28, 2019, 07:51:46 AM
There is a later version of the firmware that I would use. I'm not doing it yet just in case I'm missing something and it's finger trouble on my behalf!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 28, 2019, 01:55:26 PM
In limbo mode at the moment waiting for the new controller, though I did manage a major tidy up (amazing how many tools you get out !)

First 'real' thing I did was to measure the coil current  for the Fuel and Starter relays - max for the controller is 2 amps and I'm drawing 60 mA so no problems there!

Then although the controller specification says it has protection on these drivers, I added back emf diodes to both relays 'just in case' - after all both outputs have blown!

Then I pushed the boat out and ordered 12 metres of 35 mm CSA 'meter tails' to wire up the output socket, having eventually decided that the enormous tails that came with it were just TOO big to squeeze into the terminations even with paring down.

Then in anticipation of the new controller arriving I made up the new and hopefully correct length cable form to connect it to the Gathering DIN terminals.

At this point I decided that a bit or forensic investigation of what I previously connected up wrong would be a good idea - it turns out that I had connected the oil pressure and water temperature switches not to their intended destinations, but to the 'auto start' terminals. In this mode the controller tries to start up the engine as soon as it sees power. But I  was reconnecting the negative battery terminal, so at  the instant contact was made, the controller started the starter with attendant huge current flow, and I suspect that I probably pulled back when it arced, so power was probably going on and off a few times. Maybe this caused spikes killing the control :scratch:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 29, 2019, 03:18:54 PM
As part of my bench testing of the new controller when it arrives, I intend to have monitoring on it's inputs and outputs, and I decided that actually it would be quite handy to have indicators permanently wired. I had several 24 volt ac/dc LED panel indicators, so I made up labels for:

a/ Fuel Solenoid
b/ Starter Solenoid
c/ Oil Pressure
d/ Engine Overheat
e/ Not Charging

All this inputs and outputs are wired to or from this panel anyway, so incorporating them is relatively simple. I had hoped to get away with the original coat of paint by the expedient of covering it with masking tape prior to drilling, but no it made a mess. So it got stripped, sand blasted and re-painted this morning. Do you add holes or remove them  :scratch:

I also made up a little box to house a Neutrik  20 amp socket which will be connected to the 24 volt battery and allow the internal battery charger to be easily removed - it will be bolted to the rear cabinet panel with Rivinut inserts.

The hugely expensive roll of 35 mm 'meter tails' arrived just as we were going out (grand child to see Farmagenddon - a disappointment - not a patch on previous Aardman productions like Chicken Run) so they remain to be hammered into place tomorrow.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on October 29, 2019, 04:49:09 PM
"Do you add holes or remove them"? It is the same with gears andrew, do you cut the teeth, or the gaps between them? Who really knows, but the truth is out there!
Bad luck with the DS controller, I have done very similar things when my train of thought is disturbed when wiring.
Phil
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 30, 2019, 12:47:15 PM
Today was the day to start wrestling with Sea Serpents  :bugeye:

I'd forgotten just how hard it is to manipulate 35 mm csa meter tails, and five of them together isn't half hard on the hands ! Some months ago a friend had been clearing out a garage abandoned by one of her tenants, and one or two tools came my way including the correct tool for stripping the outer and inner sheaths of this double insulated cable, and I must say it makes the job far easier and indeed neater as well.

So, select the correct hexagonal dies for the hydraulic crimper, strip a length of the outer sheath to indicate which conductor it is when mounted, then strip the correct length of inner sheath to expose the copper that will actually enter the crimp lug. With the lug lightly gripped in the crimper, insert the cable end, and pump the handles until the preset pressure is reached and it clicks like a torque wrench.

Very simple in essence, but as I installed the first lug onto the stud of the generator output terminals I noticed ever so slight movement between the copper and the lug - that is a FAULTY crimp thinks I.

Turns out that the pre-set on that crimper is out of trim - fortunately I have a second one so re-made the crimp with that, which although it forms a similar hexagonal crimp, doesn't take the same series of dies.

When I came to the Earth / Green / Yellow cable, fortunately I noticed that the copper wires of the cable were wrapped in a very thin cellophane layer under the main sheath - just waiting to be missed in a dark cabinet and effectively insulate the copper from the lug  :bugeye:

Much pushing and pulling and lashing with huge Ty-Wraps and the monster was largely contained - I'm never happy with jobs like these as I find the extremely stiff cables hard to lay neatly.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 30, 2019, 01:02:08 PM
While I was subduing sea monsters the replacement Deep Sea 3110 controller arrived, so next job is to wire it into a test set up on the bench (well my desk really!)

Once it was all wired and double checked, and I made a diversion to save a maiden in distress who had had a trailer come uncoupled on the A21 and suitable calming down coffees and handkerchiefs had been applied (same maiden from whence the cable sheath stripper was sourced !!) I was able to apply power and try it out.

I'm delighted to be able to report that it performs as I'd expect. Pressing 'Start' it powers up the fuel solenoid shortly followed by the starter solenoid, and cranks away merrily until it's 'failed to start' timer expires - well it has no engine attached so of course it doesn't start !. It repeats this sequence three times then gives up and reports 'failed to start' by symbol on the screen.

I'll hold off wiring it into the generator until tomorrow when I'm a bit fresher !





 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: tom osselton on October 30, 2019, 03:38:16 PM
Great work as always!
I see the non functioning like button has disappeared.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 30, 2019, 05:11:23 PM
Thanks Tom for the kind words.

Tomorrow first thing I need to do is rig up a pair of switches to simulate low oil pressure and high temperature. They are both normally closed switches on the engine, but I've inverted their functions in the software set up at the moment to aid testing, but do want to ensure that they actually work - there was far too much excitement last time I rigged the controller !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 31, 2019, 01:00:13 PM
First thing today I drilled yet another switch hole in the control panel, messing up the paint again ! I think this time it may get a label stuck over it  :clap:

I decided that it would be far safer to have a key operated switch isolating the supply to the DSE3110 controller to prevent fiddling - now I only have momentary key switches 'on hand' so I've ordered a two position key actuator and put a normal switch head on until it arrives.

Then I went ahead and lashed in a pair of switches to better understand how the control handles Oil Pressure and Temperature errors. Both are normally closed switches but the control expects the Oil switch to be fleeting, and open as the engine runs, whereas the Temperature switch should be always closed. The slight complication for this is I want the Open state of the temperature switch to turn on my panel light. This was easily solved by putting the switch in parallel with the indicator and having a pull up (1K5 ohms) actually drive the indicator in fault conditions.

All seemed fine, so I took the plunge and installed the panel, being acutely aware that it was at this point last time that things went horribly wrong.  :bugeye: Not so this time.  Pressing the Start button resulted in the generator starting - How novel  :ddb: However the controller stopped the engine after 15 seconds reporting 'Over Heat' - obviously it was not ACTUALLY over heated - I'd not fully mastered the control and had set it up with the Heat switch operating anti-phase.

Another thing that I'd noticed was I'd left it set up for showing Phase / Neutral volts rather than Phase / Phase - another simple bit of configuration.

Just a simple re-configuration of the controller via it's USB port, but do I shove the software on a laptop and do it 'on site' or do I un-wire the control panel and do it back at base.

Obviously advantageous to have the software on a laptop for the future, so I tried loading it to my robust XP based Panasonic Toughbook, but it was having none of it. So I pulled my domestic Win7 based laptop out of the house and had far better success - there is something distinctly peculiar about configuring a 1970's generator via a laptop  :lol:

So I made the two tweaks and it all does as expected - Oil Light initially illuminated as is the 'Not Charging' light until the engine starts when they both go off, and as the engine is stopped the Not Charging stays alight until the engine is almost stationary, and the oil light comes on quite a few seconds later as the pressure decays - all very satisfactory.

After that success I installed the socket for the Trickle Charger, and re-wired the charger itself - this is to keep the batteries alive long term as the generator site idle most of it's time.

So not much to do now apart from sorting out some safety panels in the main cabinet to keep fingers out of  live bits, and to re-engineer the exhaust so it is integral with the generator as far as moving it is concerned.



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on October 31, 2019, 01:26:16 PM
Good work Andrew.... :bow:


I commissioning new/old stuff....fault finding especially...
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 31, 2019, 01:35:53 PM
Thanks John, it's been quite an interesting learning exercise, which I suppose is a lot to do with why I  do these things.

Just need to make it a bit more transportable to be able to shift it to its final location - I may put temporary axles and wheels through the pair of holes that pierce the lower RSJs (I still have a set  of four very heavy duty low speed wheels that I used to move my Induction Furnace down to the bottom of the garden at my last place all those years ago. That involved an OSB 'road' over a soft lawn !)

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on October 31, 2019, 02:33:21 PM
ON BOYS! ON TO THE FURNACE!! Your week has been good Andrew, mine so far has involved, in no particular order, a failed freezer and a blocked drain at my mothers, which looks like it is actually caused by a full septic tank down the garden , about 2 ft under a greenhouse, my wifes stairlift failed same day, and is in bits and bound for the workshop tomorrow, and to cap it all tonight my youngest daughter (14) sends me to the supermarket to buy halloween sweets, then tells me when I get back she is "off with her mates" and leaves me on door duty   I have had enough of this week, and its only Thursday! Tommorow I will get some shop time, albeit on the stairlift which I will chuck up on the tube as this weeks video, along with a few other bits.
The generator looks splendid, and is now worth many times what you paid I bet! can't wait to see it used in anger on the furnace, good luck with it all!
Phil
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on October 31, 2019, 06:26:25 PM
You're doing better than we did at work today. We're running a quite new towable 70kva genny (hired in) on a job and today I asked one of the lads to go up and find out why we suddenly had no power (genny is on the next level up). He leaned over the wall and shouted "IT'S ON FIRE!". I ran up there thinking it's maybe a burnt out plug but no, it was fully on fire and of course they had opened the enclosure door so what was a cloud of smoke turned into an inferno as soon as it got some proper oxygen to breathe.

We put it out with a powder fire extinguisher. On inspection it looks like the 12v battery leads had rubbed together before finally shorting and setting the insulation alight.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on October 31, 2019, 06:41:58 PM
Bad luck, a lot of energy in Lead Acid batteries waiting to leap out.

Your fire reminds me of when my Ďroad compressorí burst into flames when I was grit blasting. Luckily just a diesel pipe leaking and soon put out with a CO2 extinguisher but quite dramatic.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 01, 2019, 03:17:40 AM
Very good work and write up. I learned lot of new stuff again.

Did I understand it right that this has three completely isolated power distribution systems:

1: "Domestic" plugged into mains power normally on 1 phase 240 VAC:
* Startter battery charger
* Diesel engine heater?

2: Low voltage circuit diesel engine control system:
* starter/alternator/battery
* Engine health transducers
* Deepsea genset controller + generator output monitoring

3: Generator line (out)
* This has no connection to other systems (other than current transformers and voltage measurement)
* Are all line output terminals wired? How is ground and neutral wired?

I have a small diesel generator, output is galvanically totally isolated from the genset I.E. totally floating - there is separate terminal to ground the unit.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 01, 2019, 05:54:24 AM
Pekka, yes essentially that's it.

a/ The 'domestic' 240 / single phase input keeps the starting battery topped up, keeps the control cabinet dry with a 60 watt tubular 'greenhouse' heater, and warms the engine water jacket with a 200 watt immersion heater, and all three items are independently switched on the front panel.

b/ When the generator is in use the 24 volt starter battery is charged by the AC5-24 vehicle alternator running off the fan belt and this 24 volts is used as you say for engine function monitoring as well as running the Deep Sea 3110 controller. I'm not sure how advisable it would be to leave the trickle charger on when the engine is running, but that seems to be the way it was previously used.

c/ The main generator alternator is wired through a 225 amp breaker / isolator that is labelled as having been modified to trip at 150 amps, and is wired from there directly to the huge 125 amp five pin (L1, L2, L3, N, E) 'Commando Socket' that includes an isolator switch that is interlinked, so the plug cannot be withdrawn unless it is in the 'off' position.

From the generator output and before the breaker / isolator are three thin voltage sensing wires for the phases that previously went directly to the voltmeter switching on the front panel with no fuse or earth leakage protection. I have run them via a modified 'consumer unit' incorporating a 30 mA RCD earth leakage trip and a 6 amp MCB (as that's the lowest value that seems to be available - one amp would be more than enough)

The only points of contact between the systems are:

a/ The Trickle charger and the vehicle alternator could both charge the batteries if left switched on

b/ The Deep Sea 3110 takes in L1 and Neutral to monitor voltage / frequency etc and this I derive from the 30 mA RCD protected and 6 amp MCB protected source, but it also goes through a 2 amp wire fuse 'just in case'

At the moment chassis earth and Neutral are not connected - they probably will be and they were originally, but it's handy to have them isolated for leakage testing.

It all sounds more complicated than it really is when you work with it day in day out as I have for the last five weeks!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 01, 2019, 06:06:09 AM
Andrew,
Are you going to earth the Neutral of the generator?

If so you ought to consider connecting it via an NER with fault current monitoring in case of Phase to earth faults.... :zap:

But I guess if the sole use of the genset is for the furnace and there's phase breakers for protection it may not be needed....

Perhaps an un-necessary complication....
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 01, 2019, 06:19:55 AM
An interesting concept that I'd not come across before John. I can see the theory but I'm not convinced I need it here.

I think I'd need a bit more than an RSComponents 1/4 watt carbon - what do you reckon  :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 01, 2019, 07:02:16 AM
Hmmm lemme see, 1/4 watt carbon? Err nope, I dont think it would cut it....

The  NER's we had with our gensets were housed in metal enclosures that were  quite large....in excess of a cubic metre, easy..and a seperate relay protection panel...
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 01, 2019, 07:06:31 AM
From what I read, they are more applicable to REALLY large gen sets, not this tiddler of 110 kva
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on November 01, 2019, 08:00:01 AM
Our towables are all earth-neutral bonded AFAIK. Not sure on the hired-in jobs but out 45/60/70/100's were all like that.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 01, 2019, 09:42:03 AM
Here regualtion requires one point earth/neutral. Simply put:
1: For tools etc. single consumer "machines" athe generator end is feeder and safety ground (etc.) there.
2: When generator is connected to residental emergency power or work distribution panel - that is point where all neutrals and grounds are connected.
3: No mix and match: Strictly forbitten to earth separately at generator end and distribution panel and connect with earth/neutral cable(s). Apparently too high risk for circulating currents and fault modes will multiply.

I am sure that there are many industry/trade/country spesific deviations that work remarkably well on those special circumstances. I have seen generators that have all wires brought from pable outlets into a box that has terminals to wire generator sagety ground to which ever combination to N/G outlet terminals - or disconnect them with links and this would give easy option for groung from either end.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 07, 2019, 06:58:20 AM
As the forum has been down a few days, has any progress been made?  :poke:

Its a bit like the soaps, need the next episode.... :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 07, 2019, 07:46:02 AM
Well John, as you may imagine one or two things have been happening.

I've been working on enhancing the safety and security of the generator. Firstly fitting a lockable handle to the main cabinet to keep prying finger out, and also replacing the temporary knob on the inhibit switch with a key operated one.

The door seal got stripped out ready for replacement and the door given a coat of paint. I also decided to seal the base of the main cabinet with a sheet of zintec to keep the vermin out.

Then I've been making metal covers to cover up the various DIN rail terminals and wiring. They got a coat of paint this morning and hopefully can be fitted tomorrow.

Meanwhile it's developed two leaks. One to the flange of the oil / water cooler (leaking oil) and more worryingly  a water leak from my fabricated water jacket heater that resulted in it tripping my RCD!

Now I suspect that these leaks are inter-related - certainly both in close proximity. When I first tried the water jacket heater I had thought that it was getting rather hot and the heat wasn't being carried away as quickly as I'd have expected, and I suspected an airlock in the area.

I'll need to remove the right angled and gasketed flange that connects the oil / water cooler and remake the joints, and probably have another go at making a heater element, but that's for another day as it involves draining the coolant.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 08, 2019, 06:59:08 AM
Paint was nice and hard this morning so I fitted the safety covers to the Gathering DIN rail terminals and the controller and metering panel, so hopefully even the most determined fingers can't get into trouble.

Then I set to fitting the pair of angles that I'd fabricated and painted that will hold the poly-carbonate shield that will cover everything in the lower part of the control cabinet, and just have the rectangular bezel for the isolator protruding.

I had intended to bring the consumer unit forward 4" on spacers so that it's face was co-planar with the Isolator and cut another rectangle for access but in the end reasoned that access was fully possible by removing six screws, any tripped RCD's or MCB's would be visible through the poly-carbonate, and adding an extra stress riser to the poly-carbonate shield wasn't justified. I need to work out a scheme to cut a rectangle with rounded corners for the isolator to reduced stresses, having experienced polycarbonate stress cracking on my Beaver Partsmaster CNC Mill. The six mounting screws will be treated as I did on the Partsmaster, (*) with over sized smooth edge holes and 'top hat' inserts to take the screw clamping.

To help an awkward bit of layout for these angles I used a trick employed by the wooden boat builders and made up suitable 'length bars' to ensure things ended up in the right place - otherwise rather tricky 'in a box' !

Meanwhile the 3 1/2" BSP fittings have arrived for me to modify the exhaust layout, but that again is a job for another day.


(* https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9180.msg154826.html#msg154826 )
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 08, 2019, 07:31:32 AM
All coming together nicely... :bow:

Have you got your " Electricity at work act " signs in place?..... :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 08, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
Work - who's working  :lol:

But I HAVE ordered the attached sign sized 300 x 400 mm for the door  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: modeng200023 on November 08, 2019, 10:27:09 AM
It is interesting that you are using inch measurements. I find that they are of a more useful size than centimetres.  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 08, 2019, 11:00:53 AM
I'm equally at home with either, but this enclosure was made to Imperial dimensions.

. . . it's horses for courses really - if I'm dividing something up into sections to (for instance) get equally spaced screws I'll measure it in both systems and use the one that works out most conveniently.

The box externally was made to be 36" so little point in using 914.4 mm !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on November 08, 2019, 02:53:01 PM
I agree Andrew, I use whatever measurement system is convenient too, but I do find it annoying that most metric dimensioned equipment never seems to be in round figures, I suppose that went out of the window with standardisation, or am I just a grumpy old bugger?

Phil
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 08, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
fibonacci sequence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
+
Standard material sizes
+
Stock sizes
+
Modular sizes (often derived from archaic systems, like in building tradition)
+
Old standards and new standards
=
Part of the confusion
-> legacy system transfers from one system to another and related aproximations.

But people handle this usually pretty good.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 09, 2019, 07:33:41 AM
OK time to tackle the oil drip and water leak. Not been looking forward to this as the mounting bolts on the 90 degree adaptor on the rear of the oil / water heat exchanger are mutually blocking access to each other.

First job, drain the coolant below the heater exchanger level, saving it as it has anti-freeze that I recently added. No suitable containers so a friend produced a 205 litre plastic drum that had previously held cow teat wash (!) After a good clean out, coolant transferred to drum and I could start dismantling. I removed the electrical connections to the water jacket heater, and unscrewed it - it was evident that my braze of the copper slug to brass fitting had not been perfect and coolant had got into the rear of the heating element, hence tripping my RCD. I will make another out of solid bronze, so hopefully no leaks as no joints! The element is powered up as I type on a 24 volt lab supply (so 20 watts not the rated 200 watts at 240v) drying out - so far leakage has reduced from 120K to 6 meg-ohms but I'll let it cook for a while.

Then I started on the bolts - fiddly but just possible and eventually they were all out. The right angled piece was firmly stuck on the one locating stud (all the rest were bolts) and I gently applied the thin end of the wedge in the form initially of a putty knife taking care not to damage the flange faces. To get further spacing I ended up using two putty knives with a screwdriver blade between them again to avoid sealing face damage.

Eventually she was off, with the expected deluge of residual oil and water - turns out that the heat exchanger body has a large 'O' ring sealing it to the housing, with gaskets to engine block and main casting. I very much doubt whether the parts are available, and indeed the parts book says that the O ring is supplied as part of the tube assembly. I will ring around on Monday, but the gaskets are relatively easy to make, and the O ring will be available if I can accurately determine what size it should be. It slides into and seals in a  90.75 bore so probably needs to be a tad larger than that.

I strongly suspect that I caused all this havoc :bang: When I installed the water jacket heater it got rather hot and I suspect cooked the O ring due to an airlock. I now realise that there is a drain plug below it where water / air can be bled off.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 09, 2019, 01:01:39 PM
A little more investigation on the "O Ring Seal" leads me to believe it probably wasn't originally an O ring, as the cross section is rather rectangular. But this may be due to age (1972 remember) and over heating.

The groove that it sits in is 4.14 mm wide, has a minor diameter of 84.46 mm and the bore that it seals in is 90.75 - not many standards there !!

So if it had a 3 mm cord O ring 2 x 3.00 plus 84.46 gives 90.46 o/d - too small to seal

If it had a 4 mm cord O ring 2 x 4.00 plus 84.46 gives 92.46 o/d and probably too big to enter the bore

If it had 1/8" cord (3.18 mm) 2 x 3.18 plus 84.46 gives 90.82 which is a possibility though slightly on the small size

I'll try and get the real thing, but I've ordered a 4 mm cord 83 mm O ring reasoning if it is stretched to fit the groove it's cord diameter will shrink a bit ad it may fit - after all it just needs to go n once, it's not a rotating or constantly sliding fit.

Meanwhile I've drawn up the two gaskets needed and cut them on the laser cutter. Samples are gasket material but to ones I use will be a bit thicker - this are just 'trial fits' to prove the drawings.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 09, 2019, 01:05:14 PM
Those gaskets look the bizz..... :bow:


You could have a little sideline in gasket supply..... :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 09, 2019, 01:18:37 PM
Yes I was rather pleased how they came out, and only took 20 minutes.

A quick draw in Autocad, having measured up, learnt how to place '3 point arcs'  and 'Tangent Snap' for the sides of the four hole gasket, then export as .DXF's to RDWorks which is the laser driver and bobs your Uncle  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 09, 2019, 01:55:35 PM
Nice gasket!

Does that heater mounts onto oil/water heat exhanger? That would be nifty place to heat both oil and water.

Pekka
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 09, 2019, 02:34:44 PM
Yes it points forwards toward the tube pack and is immersed in the water.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 10, 2019, 05:40:19 AM
Time is pressing this morning as we have a luncheon appointment, but I'd intended to cut the hexagon on my bronze stock to re-make the heater unit as an integral (no joints) piece.

Sadly my bronze bar proved just too small so I've ordered a short length of  35 mm brass  hex to make one later. However I thought that I'd have a go at re-making the first one I made - I'd thought I'd run out of silver solder and used silphos instead however a recent rummage has revealed another stash of various silver solders at differing melting points  :thumbup:

So the plan of attack was to clean up the inside of the joint between the copper slug and the brass fitting and run a fillet of silver solder around it. First attempt didn't fully wet, but a re-clean in the grit blaster and re-flux cured that.

To inspect the joint properly I then again grit blasted it, and although it looks sound I decided to subject it to a 'bubble test' at 100 PSI. Cobbling various plumbing fittings together to adapt it to my airline I dunked it in a bowl of warm water and looked for escaping air. None apparent so I 'think' it is now sound.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 10, 2019, 06:50:12 AM
Heaters are a little picky that way. When they are subject to changing temperature gradients parts tend to find weak spots.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 12, 2019, 06:50:02 AM
No joy sourcing the correct heat exchanger sealing ring - parts book calls it an O ring (#576/35) but it has a rectangular cross section.

Simply Bearings delivered a pack of 4 mm x 83 mm and 4 mm x 84 mm normal O rings so I could try different fits. The original created a seal that very easily (too easily) could be pressed home. I tried the 4 x 84 first with copious amounts of Vaseline and careful pre-cleaning of the groove and taper on the adaptor. No way would it just press on, but pulling it on with it's mounting bolts it went home when I did a trial assembly. This let me pull it apart again and examine the O ring for damage, as possibly it could have had it's crown cut off.  No visible damage so I decided to go with this size of O ring.

Out with the Blue Hylomar sealant, a light smearing on both sides of the gaskets then it was just a case of bolting it together - except for those bolts that are  at 90 degrees to each other and clash. To get the engine side gasket aligned I had first to put it's bolts in, loosely tighten two of the ones around the O ring, remove the engine side bolts, put in the other two round the O ring, pull them up reasonably tight, put back the engine side bolts and rinse and repeat. All this fussing as of course as the O ring housing is drawn together, the alignment of the engine side bolts changes as the flange is drawn down the side of the engine ! Got there in the end.

Can't test it until I've sorted out the water jacket heater.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 12, 2019, 10:54:14 AM
This afternoon I had a bit of time to start on the exhaust modifications.

First I plasma cut a flange with a 65 mm hole from 12 mm plate - first time I've cut as thick as that on the table. First attempt failed - lack of penetration (which wiped out a set of consumables) so for the second attempt I cut the tracking speed in half to be on the safe side, and all was well.

Then set it up in the 4 jaw chuck for boring and threading. "Take a 72.8 mm drill . . . " well obviously I bored it and threaded it to be a tight fit half way up a 2 1/2"  male BSPT fitting.

All seems to screw together but I've still not finalised how the exhaust will run. It will be easier to get ideas when I have bits to screw together !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 13, 2019, 07:34:43 AM
An exhausting morning - literally  :clap:

Objective: to try and reduce the existing exhaust system to its component parts.

a/ Original exhaust flange is welded to a length of flexible pipe which is welded to a pipe stub, so that's not unscrewing

b/ Tail Pipe is welded to a socket fitting which is screwed onto the silencer - that unscrewed with heat and much effort

c/ Pipe stub on flexi screws into elbow on silencer - that again unscrewed with heat and a lot of puffing and blowing

d/ Elbow screws onto pipe stub on silencer - this has so far resisted all efforts to unscrew it. I've had it glowing red (oxy-acetylene torch)  - I've shock cooled it with water, and tried several times but . . it want's to stay where it is :bang:

Never mind, I can still try a few layouts, and accept the limitation that it has an immovable elbow ! Without being able to unscrew the elbow, a drain plug in the silencer cannot be rotated to a functional position.

First vertical - probably  simplest but I don't have the height where the generator is going

Secondly folding backwards then a 180 return to bring the tail pipe pointing forwards again. I prefer this lay out.

Either layout needs a short flexi from exhaust flange to pipe to avoid cracking the manifold, and #2 will need a heat shield to stop radiated heat downwards. Both will need some sort of support framework making with the silencer mounted on rubber suspension.

. . as usual all suggestions welcome  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 13, 2019, 08:11:23 AM
An exhausting morning - literally  :clap:
......

Either layout needs a short flexi from exhaust flange to pipe to avoid cracking the manifold, and #2 will need a heat shield to stop radiated heat downwards. Both will need some sort of support framework making with the silencer mounted on rubber suspension.

. . as usual all suggestions welcome  :thumbup:
Do you feel exhausted?  :lol:

You were thinkin something like this?
(https://asset.motonet.fi/img/1/148415/500/148415.jpg)

And
(https://asset.motonet.fi/img/1/139999/500/139999.jpg)

(https://asset.motonet.fi/img/1/130584/300/130584.jpg)


Or really professional look with welded rod and plenty of these 3Ä rubber elements?
(https://asset.motonet.fi/img/1/130764/300/130764.jpg)

Maybe the muffler is not too nice to weld? You have ability to make custom mounting flanges at the both end of the exhaust pipe of the muffler, maybe those would be right place to support the muffler and allow muffler heat shield to mount simply clear of it?


Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 13, 2019, 08:25:42 AM
Yes Pekka very much on those  lines. My preference is for the clamp on version of that flexi, but it does make the assembly overly long.

And all those suspension elements are likely to end up on a shopping list shortly  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 13, 2019, 09:26:36 AM
I just lash up with perforated steel strapping.....pretty good and offers good possibilities of screw mounts.

(https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/48657.jpg)

Not pretty, but fast and cost effective and spares seem to be around.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 13, 2019, 10:29:50 AM
I've just bankrupted myself ordering 2 1/2" BSP fittings - the existing exhaust is in heavy wall pipe, and although I could replace it all in standard exhaust pipe, by the time it's turned round a few bends it works out even more expensive.

There are no local suppliers unfortunately - anything over 1" BSP seems to scare plumbers these days ! Really I want a 2 metre length of 2 1/2" with threads on one end as a tailpipe, but without buying a lorry load it seems to be unobtainable, so the last metre is going to have to be that existing flexy pipe reused.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 13, 2019, 01:45:25 PM
Andrew,
Are there any vehicle ( commercial or otherwise) exhaust makers down your way? I'd have thought 2-1/2" pipe in abundance not necessary the right schedule for your use but of reasonable wall thickness to suffice without breaking any more piggy banks...
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: chipenter on November 13, 2019, 02:04:28 PM
My Volvo XC70 had 65mm exhaust maybe other T5s had the same size .
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 14, 2019, 11:19:36 AM
3 metre length of 2 1/2" BSP gas barrel is a mere £89 delivered  :bugeye:  (Hence going to re-use the flexible pipe !)

At lunchtime the 100 mm length of 36 mm Brass Hexagonal arrived, so I was able to get on and make a heater housing as one solid integrated part so (hopefully) no more leaks.

A fairly straightforwards bit of machining but by heck those brass bits go everywhere !

The first heater element that I fitted was subjected to engine coolant approaching it from the 'lead' end and this had degraded the magnesium oxide insulation causing my RCD to trip. Apparently magnesium oxide is hydroscopic. I had tried initially heating it from a 24 v DC source (so only 20 watts, it's rated at 200 watts) to try and drive off the moisture, and initially this was promising, then the leakage got much greater. As an experiment I put it in a box of silica gel over night and it's leakage resistance was up to a meg-ohm or so in the morning, so I left it connected to the 24 volt DC supply over night, and now I cannot detect any leakage at all  :clap:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 14, 2019, 12:06:33 PM
Hygroscopic insulation material on water heater. Argh.

That one piece heater pocket should do it pretty well. Looks the business very much.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 14, 2019, 12:20:44 PM
MICC (or Pyrotenax )  uses the same magnesium oxide insulation - in fact it was in some installation instructions for Pyrotenax that I read that the cable ends need to be heated with a blowlamp before conducting insulation tests for this very reason !



Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on November 14, 2019, 04:27:47 PM
Commercial vehicle spares supplier is what you probably wanted for exhaust bits, although 2 1/2" isn't that big, but car suppliers aren't likely to supply individual pipes/bends. Trucks often have non-standard exhaust systems, so commercial suppliers are far more used to sourcing individual bits.

There are also a few custom exhaust companies around, which often aren't that expensive. We used to get custom stacks for lorries for under £300, which involved a few 45 deg bends to get from the silencer and past the gearbox, while avoiding a cross member, and various pipes, before the final 2 1/2m vertical stack.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 15, 2019, 09:05:08 AM
First thing this morning I re-installed the heater housing to give the  Loctite 577 time to go off.

A little while later I re-filled the water system with the coolant (with anti-freeze) that I'd previously saved. I say re-filled, I had a full 2 gallon bucket that wouldn't go back - obviously an air lock. I put the cap back on the radiator and ran it for a while to get coolant circulating, then after loads of gurgling things sorted themselves out and the rest of the coolant went in.

I then re-started the engine and left it running for ten minutes, but to my horror - an oil leak from the same place as before, dripping from the gasket flange between the main body of the heat exchanger and the adaptor that houses the heating element and conveys water from the engine water jacket.  :bugeye:

I went through the sequence of bolt removal, re-tightening and replacement with those pesky interfering bolts yet again but to no avail - still oil dripping from the gasket joint.

Now it's a new gasket made from quality oil & water resistant material, smeared in Blue Hylomar, and I had scrupulously cleaned and checked the mating surfaces for truth - it CAN'T be leaking, but it apparently WAS  :bang:

Accepting that it would all have to come apart again, I went off for a spot of lunch , but lunch was delayed for twenty minutes due to domestic issues, so I went back for one last check with torches, mirrors and clean rags. Sure enough oil seemed to be oozing from the gasket joint. Sitting up to check the time (only twenty mins don't be late !!) a small movement caught my eye - what was that!

On the cylinder head the rocker shaft and tappets are lubricated by a network of nylon pipes, and what had caught my eye was a drip from one of them PRECISELY above the flange where I had an apparent leak. It only dripped about every five minutes but here was the smoking gun - here was my oil leak  :lol:

Oh the irony, all that faffing about dismantling, making new gaskets, trying  to source the unobtainable odd shaped 'O' ring probably wasn't necessary!

Never mind, there HAD been a water leak (that is no more) and there HAD been an oil leak which also is no more !

And while typing this  TNT have just delivered the 35" x 39" sheet of 4 mm poly-carbonate which is the last safety shield in the control cabinet so there's a job for the weekend.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on November 15, 2019, 09:31:44 AM
Dont you just love it when things go right for a change?😀

Lucky you spotted the leaky pipe when you did..👍
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 17, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Yesterday morning was entirely taken up with a conducted tour of a high end Jaguar restorer and race preparation company (that I'm not allowed to name!) Unbelievably well set up and equipped. Hardly a vehicle there worth less than a million (sterling) and several apparently worth well over ten million  :bugeye: I hate to think what their security bill is !

So in the afternoon I manged to fit the poly-carbonate safety screen to the lower part of the main generator cabinet.

It didn't quite go to plan, as although the ideal size to cover the whole lot up would have been 39 inches tall by 35 wide, due to the door opening size with a 'kick plate'  I could only physically squeeze a bit 34" tall. Never mind, my jig saw carefully removed the offending 5 inch strip.

Then the issue was locating the rectangle for the isolator toggle switch and the six retaining screws with a fair degree of accuracy. Once more I resorted to 'length sticks' marking a wooden lath up from two reference edges. Not wanting to introduce stress risers I made the rectangle with pronounced rounded corners.

Once that was done I could hang the poly-carbonate on the isolator and mark the mounting holes by eye, as now having peeled back the protective coating for an inch down the sided I could see the threaded holes. The mounting holes are drilled and smooth finished well oversize, and the screws pass through nylon 'top hat' bushes that take the screw force so that the panel 'floats'

Today I've been running tests on the water jacket / oil heater, and I'm pleased to say it's working as expected, so previously it must have been an airlock preventing the heat spreading.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: tom osselton on November 17, 2019, 02:38:13 PM
 :thumbup:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 19, 2019, 07:08:25 AM
Today I tried to make up the "Flexy flange to 2 1/2" BSP male adaptor" for the exhaust. Making the components was no trouble, and I had intended to TIG them together. However a bit of practise on similar thickness parts convinced me that my TIG skills were not up to the job - far too easy to burn through the thin material when creating a puddle in the thicker (8 mm) flange material.

So I decided to SIF Bronze / braze it instead, but frankly my efforts weren't much better - I managed to burn through the outer woven jacket of the flexy with a carelessly placed flame (it doesn't take much)  :bugeye:

What I've ended up with probably is functional, but certainly not pretty - it will let me progress with sizing the support for the exhaust at least, and hopefully make that, but I've decided to seek help from an as yet unknown person (!) to do a proper TIG job on it.

To that aim I've ordered another Flexy joint and already made another flange, just need to turn down the end of the 2 1/2" BSP short spigot to fit and find someone who has the TIG skills
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 19, 2019, 08:10:14 AM
Those are not usually that easy to weld, sometimes needs a preheating the heavier part or use a bushing made out of middle ground material thickness. Hardly never pretty, but nearly always functional.

Last Saturday friend of mine paid a visit with his BMW that had a alloy wheel bolt stcuk. This one was special coded spline bolt....that has all the usual tricks to prevent theft of the alloys.

(https://www.kwik-fit.com/assets/blog/BC1000054.jpg)

Would not open with a 650 Nm impact gun and would cam out with breaker bar. Garage tried to open it prior and told that it would cost a lot and take few days to remove.

Had to mutilate 19 AF socket with 3/4" drive, cut it on band saw and camfered in lathe. Protected the wheel and welded the socket at the face of the lock nut trough the socket 3/4" opening. I can tell that it is little tight fit to be able to manipulate the stick trough the straw. Used 1 and 1/2 2,5 mm good electrodes with bit over 100A current, because really needed enough weld bead to hold the abuse. Let it cool and asked friend to have the first try with 600 mm T-handle. Car would move, but the bolt not. I proceed to lift the handle and car lifted a little and bolt squaked open.

That weld did not win any beaty contents, but relief on my friends face was great.

Functional is the word. Chuck it there and treat it as a prototype.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on November 19, 2019, 01:45:49 PM
someone who has the TIG skills

Andrew,

If you can wait 'till Christmas! I could help! I would be inclined to Mig it if you have .06 or .08 wire!

Cheers, Matthew
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 19, 2019, 01:52:03 PM
Matthew several things come out of your comments:

A/ Excellent, you are coming over at Christmas - always good to see you !

B/ Yes I have 0.6 & 0.8 MIG but I reckon I'd burn thorough with that

C/ No I can't wait 'till Christmas, you know how impatient I am  :lol:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: hermetic on November 19, 2019, 03:09:20 PM
You could try TIG brazing it Andrew, I tried it on a minor repair on a casting, and found it easier than O/A. Funny thing is with mig that I find it easier to weld thin metals with my 200 amp 3 phase mig than with the 160A Clarke single phase, smoother weld, and more stable it low amps, but I tend to join spots up ratner than continous weld if the material is realy thin.. Getting those flexy's on is not easy, I used to use them for repairs and replacements, and got the knack of migging them, but many years later someone brought one in, and I managed to completely **** it up! Luckily I had one on the shelf!
Its all looking good!
Phil
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on November 19, 2019, 04:15:58 PM
Matthew several things come out of your comments:

A/ Excellent, you are coming over at Christmas - always good to see you !

It'll be fun to catch up and see your projects, agin!!

B/ Yes I have 0.6 & 0.8 MIG but I reckon I'd burn thorough with that

I suggested 0.6 as it is often used for car bodywork, people I know also use 0.8 for that. I remember in one of my other lives as a Comercial vehicle fitter having seen those flexible coupleings that were Mig welded, made sense!!

C/ No I can't wait 'till Christmas, you know how impatient I am  :lol:

I'm not in the slightest bit surprised you can't wait!
Looking forward to see you, cheers, Matthew
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on November 19, 2019, 06:51:16 PM
I would have MIG'd that.

Lots of spot welds would probably be required, but I've done a few of those flexis with 0.8mm wire, and burning through has never been a problem.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 21, 2019, 10:39:31 AM
And I may well still Morray !

I've had the linear actuator to open and close the radiator louvres for quite some time but needed to forge a lower mounting bracket, and modify the lever on the louvres to take the upper 'eye' of the actuator. Lower bracket was forged yesterday and painted and fitted today. Upper pivot pin on the louvres was modified to suit this afternoon so I've been able to hang the actuator in place, and prove that not only does it have the needed travel, but also adequate 'oomph' to operate the mechanism.

Now it's in place I can work out how to mount it's control box in the remaining space. I've decided to use a domestic hot water tank adjustable thermostat strapped to the side of the radiator to give some control of operating point, and to have limit switches for the 'open' and 'closed' positions.

The actuator is reversed by reversing it's connections which is a bit of a pain in the switching department (double pole double throw relay contacts). I've worked out a simple control scheme using a four pole change over relay but am experimenting with a slightly more complicated version that will give me manual operation or automatic operation at the flick of a switch - not sure yet which way to jump.

Accommodating the limit switches is going to be 'interesting' finding enough real estate to house them !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on November 21, 2019, 11:21:42 AM
Perhaps you could mount the switch on the outer, or even inner, face of the shutter frame so that it bears against the arm. Obvious a bit of tweaking will be need, but there seems to be plenty of metal on the roller strap to cope with a crank being set in it.
Alternatively, how about mounting it inside the front of the cowl so that the top louvre operates it? The roller is adjustable for length and, I assume, can be rotatated on its shaft.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 28, 2019, 07:55:07 AM
Well life seems to have got in the way of progress recently, but I've not been idle!

I've managed to get DesignSpark Electrical running on my Win10 workshop PC and have drawn the shutter control circuit out, which was getting out of hand on scraps of paper - quite a learning curve and I don't like their symbols !

I have at long last worked out a way of mounting and actuating the shutter limit switches - this involved adding a second extended crank to the operating arm.

And having located the limit switches this let me decided where and how to fix the radiator thermostat - it's a domestic hot water tank stat intended to be pressed against the copper tank, so my bracket presses it against the side of the radiator.

I've got the control circuitry working on the bench and made up a box for it - well the box is actually a 6 x 6 x 3 inch conduit box I've pressed into service - it might actually have been easier to make one from scratch, as the knock out 20 mm conduit holes always seem to get in the way of where switch holes need to go. Drilling the four holes in the upper surface (two indicators, a manual / auto switch and a open / close button) was a pain as the knock outs kept detaching - I tried soldering them in place but that didn't work so made a new overlay panel for that face.

The next challenge is to get all the bits inside the box, and then wire it up on the machine. The components (a relay, two indicators, two multilevel switches) all fit nicely, but wiring the limit switches and thermostat on the machine will be an issue as access to where they connect on the switches is nigh on impossible.

While typing this it occurs to me that plugs and sockets for the actuator drive, the two limit switches and the thermostat would completely solve the issue, and by chance I have several 4 way plugs and sockets of the style beloved of the amateur CNC retro-fitters for stepper motors (previously removed from my CNC Plasma table)

I noticed an odd effect in the matt black paint of the thermostat bracket - little spots where the paint wasn't wetting the metal. It had been sand blasted and spirit cleaned but something obviously was contaminating it.

I've re-blasted it, given it a thorough clean in acetone and it's second coat is drying as I type this.

Meanwhile my friend Johnny delivered the exhaust flexy to flange adaptor that he had tigged up for me - a nice job thank you Johnny - so I can start thinking about exhaust brackets again!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: RussellT on November 28, 2019, 10:22:46 AM
Hi Andrew

Nice work as usual. :clap: :clap:

Do you think the thermostat will respond quickly enough there?  In most radiators the side panel doesn't have any water flowing through it.

Russell
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 28, 2019, 11:15:20 AM
Time will tell Russell, but I think so - the whole header tank gets all hot and bothered as soon as the inbuilt thermostat opens, as the engine holds a large volume of water which of course rushes there quite quickly. I expect that there will be some lag, and also the hysteresis in the system should prevent it flapping open and shut all the time.

. . . but if it's not quite right I'll (try and!) sort it !

The other thing I need to sort out before I nail the lid on is arc suppression on the relay contacts. As the  actuator is reversed by reversing it's polarity I cannot just put a quenching diode across it. So I suppose either a capacitor / resistor network across each contact pair (a pain physically) or maybe an MOV or varistor across the actuator itself

As usual, all suggestions welcome !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: WeldingRod on November 28, 2019, 05:08:50 PM
Are R/C type suppresor?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 28, 2019, 05:39:57 PM
For a coil that is driven in only one polarity usually it suffices to put a (flywheel) diode across it in the reverse (ie non conducting) direction, so that as the relay contact opens the back emf of the coil is shorted.

In this situation, this simple solution is not applicable as the coil can be driven in both polarities.
Back to back zener diodes, an MOV or Varistor, or a simple capacitor in series with a low value resistor are possibilities.

I think an MOV is the simplest but without robbing other equipment, I have non to experiment with !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on November 29, 2019, 12:36:34 PM
You prpbably know that MOV:s will take only limited amout of hit and then fail and short. You need a some sort of fuse on feeding line or limit the current safe way - unless it is intrinsically safe.

Then again RC surpressor will fail eventually too. But I have used to see them in industry often on AC solenoid valves.

This sort of thing is found to operate well. I think that since this is AC/DC this sot of stuff would work in switched polarity and would be a standard item.
https://www.productsforautomation.com/murr-din-43650-formb-24V-mov-11021-p/7000-11021-2260150.htm

Do you like that sort of component?

Alternatively:

If I had to build one, I would resort to ovekill it: I would put RC-snubber and the higher voltage MOV with series PTC-fuse tied to MOV.
https://m.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/application_notes/reed_switches/littelfuse_magnetic_sensors_and_reed_switches_inductive_load_arc_suppression_application_note.pdf.pdf

You know the standard rouge: MOV+PTC in series, but mechanically tied together with hitemp shrink tube or in same encapsulation (2-4 lead models).
https://www.automotive-fuses.com/sale-11081692-thermal-protection-surge-suppressor-metal-voltage-dependent-resistor-mov-tmov25s-series.html


Pekka
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on November 29, 2019, 01:32:21 PM
What about a couple Zener diodes in series back to back?

However, I probably wouldn't be that concerned about arc suppression. I'm guessing most of those components will be rated for a good few amps at 240VAC, in which case a couple amps at 24VDC shouldn't be a major concern.
If it was, I'd design the circuit so a couple pluggable relays were doing the actuator switching, so you could just change the relays if it did become an issue, however you're then into the possible area of the switch contacts oxidising due to lack of switching current.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on November 29, 2019, 05:36:20 PM
Morray, the switching (of 3.5 amps @ 24v DC) is done by a single four pole change over plug in relay, and as it happens I have about thirty spares in hand as they are the style that the original generator controller used, so that is one approach that I seriously considered.

But seeing the not inconsiderable arc leads me to want to tame it !

(The back to back zener method is one of the  options I cited a couple of postings above)

At the moment getting 'all the bits' into that box and connecting them is proving quite a challenge despite having installed pre-wired sockets and plugs for all external connections.


Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 01, 2019, 11:28:40 AM
This control box for the shutter automation has taken far too long for such a simple device, and it's driven me up the wall!

The real problem is I've been too ambitious getting it into a small box, with the result that virtually none of the switch or relay contact screws are accessible with the components in the box. This means that wiring has had to be done as a 3D jumble on the bench, and the bits then returned to the box - this necessitates wires that are long enough to manoeuvre the  items as they are re-fitted. Not too bad if the circuit was finalised and I only had to do it once, but that wasn't the case !

However, a mile stone today, all is assembled in the box, and now the box has plugs and sockets for all it's external connections so fitting to the generator 'should' be trivial (famous last words!)

I was extremely fortunate that the holes that I'd bored for cable glands exactly matched the sockets that I then decided to use, so that was a bonus.

I've made up cable forms to run to the thermostat and limit switches and hope tomorrow to get it actually in operation.

(Attached is the final version of the circuit)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 02, 2019, 10:34:53 AM
So as I'd hoped, I managed to fit the control box this morning. I need to finalise the cable runs, and also where I source the 24 volts from. Ideally it would be via the key switch on the Deep Sea 3110 control panel, but that doesn't have the current capacity.

Anyway it's is at last fundamentally working as intened - just awaiting titivation.




Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 02, 2019, 10:52:26 AM
So now I need to sort out how to get fuel into the tank. There is a filler but it's rather high up to pour into.

Originally there was a semi-rotary hand pump fixed to the tank support framework, but it's 'gone missing' over time. Mounting holes measured at five inches spacing but I couldn't for the life of me find one that size either new or used.

Several of varying sizes appeared on ebay while I was looking and eventually I bought the nearest to five inches that I could (measuring and scaling pictures!) for the princely sum of £12. This turned out (I think!) to be a bargain - it's mounting holes are 5 1/2" apart but looking at the pipe mounts they have original over spray paint, and there is still a membrane across the opening, so I presume that it must be 'new old stock'

I'd intended to CNC plasma cut a new mounting plate, but removing the old one for measurement realised that it could be adapted if I could manage to mount a 'false centre' in the old spigot hole and bore it out larger and offset 1/4" .To this end I bolted a strip of steel across the old hole, drilled a centre in the new location and cut it out with a hole saw - all went well with no dramas  :thumbup:

I still need to make a wooden handle for it and sort out it's plumbing - input and output are both 1" BSP, the tank input orifice is 1/2" BSP, and I think I'll put a ball valve below the pump to try and minimise drips after use - but that's for another day - at least the pump is now off my bench  :thumbup:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on December 02, 2019, 11:49:19 AM
Andrew,
Coming along nicely, looking forward to seeing all this in person!

Matthew
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 03, 2019, 06:33:57 AM
This morning I managed to fit the upper diesel plumbing from the pump to the tank using what I had to hand. Time was when I had loads of gas barrel, but that vertical bit (which needed extending two inches) was what was originally on the machine when it came, and despite searching high and low I couldn't find a longer bit. The plumbing 'odds and sods' box provided the solution.

The original pump must have been an odd (taller) shape, and of course this one is 'side stepped' half an inch being wider.

Of course I don't actually know if this one works, nor for certain which way up it's supposed to mount - I put it with the cast in model number letters upright so it's probably right  :scratch:

Bushing and ball valve on order for the lower pipe that will go to a Jerry Can.

It was too darn cold this morning to do any more with the shutter controller wiring, so I came in, lit a log fire and chatted with the dogs  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on December 03, 2019, 09:30:03 AM
You know - I saw this most peculiar thing one day: One man was talking to a cat!

I returned home, told what I had seen to border collie and we both had a good laugh.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 04, 2019, 05:41:11 AM
So I braved the minus 3 degrees Centigrade this morning and finished off the shutter controller wiring. Amazingly I was able to pull a 0V return cable through the existing convoluted conduit that snakes from the alternator, across the front of the engine and up to the ammeter panel - surprising as it already has quite a bit in it - I used a nylon conduit pull cable  which managed to traverse the not inconsiderable bends.

This allowed me to source the 24 volt feed to the controller from the ammeter panel, for which I ran another length of 20 mm convoluted conduit.

I'm amazed how well this Dorman diesel engine starts in cold weather - very impressive  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: russ57 on December 04, 2019, 05:45:57 AM
And if you get that induction furnace connected and loaded up, you might raise the temperature a bit....

Russ

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on December 04, 2019, 07:23:06 AM
Does the engine have any glo plugs to aid cold start?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 04, 2019, 10:24:01 AM
No John, it just relies on squashing that diesel vapour. There is of course the water jacket heater that I could use but at the moment it's off and the engine still fires up on the first cranking - possibly slightly more black smoke than on a warmer day but it's marginal.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on December 04, 2019, 11:37:02 AM
There's always Eazi-start.... :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: AdeV on December 04, 2019, 01:08:07 PM
There's always Eazi-start.... :clap:

I always preferred the Australian name for that stuff: "Start ya bastard!"  :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on December 04, 2019, 01:16:36 PM
If it starts, it doesn't need anything ! Definitely no easy start!!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 04, 2019, 01:43:44 PM
Easy start always has to be an absolute last resort. It can do all sorts of damage to the piston lands above the top ring, breaking them.

As for the Dorman, there really doesnít seem any need at all  :thumbup:

( I have used Easystart to reseat tyre beads, in fact come to think about it it was on my last big generator, an Agrecko that I used for the Induction Furnace)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: philf on December 04, 2019, 03:23:35 PM
There's always Eazi-start.... :clap:
Always worked well in my air rifle!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on December 10, 2019, 07:50:42 PM
IT appears there's a 750 kVA genset going in Harlow, Andrew  :thumbup:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/585598342202648/
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 11, 2019, 03:21:29 AM
Seadog, put it on a pallet and send it over  :clap:

Looks to have a nice Paxman Diesel engine, I bet that sounds lovely.

As for mine, Iíve been distracted this past week sorting winter fuel, which involved totally reorganizing the tractor shed to extract my 17 foot Ifor Williams trailer (blocked in by many things including the generator), and collecting 3 1/2 tons of oak cord wood from a friends wood, logging and splitting it. (Anyone want 4 wheelbarrow loads of sawdust!) todayís job is to put everything back so I can get on sorting the generators exhaust. BTW this is next years fuel not this year.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Sea.dog on December 11, 2019, 03:31:34 AM
I'll see what I can do  :D

I'd have thought that with so much sawdust you'd be thinking along the lines of manufacturing your own pellets and having a biomass burner  :lol:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: pycoed on December 11, 2019, 04:58:44 AM
<which involved totally reorganizing the tractor shed to extract my 17 foot Ifor Williams trailer>

Need a bigger shed! - just proves the impossibility of building a shed large enough to last more then a year of "collecting" :D
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: AdeV on December 11, 2019, 12:39:55 PM
Anyone want 4 wheelbarrow loads of sawdust!

...or to give it it's proper name: Spilt oil absorber...!

If I was more local to you than completely on the other end of the country, I'd take you up on that!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 12, 2019, 06:49:19 AM
Probably too wet for that Ade.

At long last the plumbing bits for the diesel pump tail side have arrived, so I was able to fit them this morning and try the pump at last. Glad to say that it works splendidly, though I may fit a length of hard steel pipe to the end of the flexy hose, as the flexy tends to curl away from the bottom of the Jerry Can stopping it being fully emptied. I could go the whole hog and fit a foot valve and filter unit which would weigh it down, but I don't think that's justified unless I happen to have one kicking about (vague memory of one somewhere!)

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mc on December 13, 2019, 05:02:30 PM
Sawdust briquette press for your next project?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 13, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
Too late Morray, it's on the compost heap with the piggy poo  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 14, 2019, 06:52:10 AM
At last progress with the exhaust system  :thumbup:

My friend Johnny had kindly tigged up the flexy to my manifold adaptor a couple of weeks ago, but I've not been able to get on with it due to other commitments.

First off I assembled the various bits of plumbing and set it in place on a baulk of timber - it's not self supporting due to the flexy section. This allowed me to make some measurements and get a better idea of what was possible. Two  76 mm exhaust clamps are fitted round the inlet and outlet pipes, and their 8 mm threaded studs take 5 inch long hexagonal pillars tapped 8 mm female both ends. The lower ends of these pillars take anti-vibration mounts, also conveniently threaded 8 mm that fix on a 6 mm steel plate 760 mm long and 150 mm wide. This not only acts as a supporting member but will hopefully also act as a bit of a heat shield. The front part of this steel plate will be supported by a vertical 6 mm plate bolted to the shutter assembly, and the rear will be supported by a pair of 10 inch high hexagonal pillars fixed to the radiator cross bracing bar.

The block of wood that it was resting on got in the way so I had to find some way of supporting the silencer temporarily in mid air  to allow me to assemble bits as I made them and hence measure up for the next bit as this is very bespoke!

Fortunately some time ago my friend Pete had given me some  scrapped handrails that used 'Tube Clamps' which let me make up a temporary scaffold projecting a tube into the outlet of the silencer to stop it sagging.

I made up wooden mock ups of the supports to check sizes, and so far have made the 10" long threaded hexagonal pillars that support the rear, the Loctite on the male studs is setting as I type, but I wont cut and fix the front plate until they are in place, as things tend to move about a bit and sizes change!

 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 15, 2019, 10:34:15 AM
So today the bolts forming the male studs on the rear pillars got truncated, I made the front vertical plate to support the horizontal plate along with the joining bit of angle iron and bolted it all together.

So the silencer is now properly supported, the temporary scaffolding could be taken down, and I did a trial run just to ensure that it doesn't shake itself to pieces - it doesn't  :clap:

I think apart from moving it to it's final resting place all that is left is to source some suitable high temperature paint and paint the silencer and it's fixings - I do have the remains of a rattle can of 'High Temperature Matt Black Hammerite' that claims to withstand 600 deg C but it must be decades old and anyway there probably isn't enough in the can. I suppose BBQ paint is the stuff to look for  :scratch: Any suggestions welcome.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: RussellT on December 15, 2019, 11:18:23 AM
I have used Sperex Exhaust Paint with reasonable success in the past.  It now seems to be a Simoniz product.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Simoniz-Very-Termperature-Paint-500ml/dp/B003N9QL8U

Russell
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on December 15, 2019, 12:26:17 PM
My mate used to paint his bike exhausts with barbecue paint. Only problem was petrol would take it right off.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 17, 2019, 03:35:29 PM
Tomorrow I am hoping to put this generator under a little load. Other than measuring it's output voltage, and the minuscule current that the controller and instrumentation take, it has not been loaded in my ownership.

Now in the Tractor Shed I have a rather large Hydrovane compressor (*). At 18.5 kW it should be be a small load for the generator, but again this piece of equipment has not been tested in my ownership as it's 35 amp running current is a bit too large for the local wiring. So i t will be two firsts tomorrow  :bugeye:

BUT I had parked the Hydrovane too close to the wall to get at it's electrical input, and the generator was blocking access for the Forklift Truck. Even the Pallet Truck wouldn't work as the Hydrovane fork pockets were too far apart.

So my job this evening was to improvise using a scaffold pole and two 'Railway Jacks' to lift it high enough for the pallet truck to move it away from the wall.

I had already dug out a 125 amp plug and a suitable length of 4 core 6 mm (51 amp rated) SWA cable earlier in the day.

So listen for loud bangs tomorrow morning  :clap:


(* Featured in this thread https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,12963.msg155283.html#msg155283 )
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on December 17, 2019, 04:24:59 PM
All will be well, 18kva is small potatoes :zap:

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 18, 2019, 02:24:27 PM
Well that went spiffingly -NOT  :bang:

This morning I did a bit of pruning and removed the remote control wiring and power wiring to the big Hydrovane compressor.

Then apparently it was ESSENTIAL that I visited a local cliff at the seaside where fossils could be found - OK nice flask of coffee and back home for lunch (with no fossils!).

So the afternoon was spent making off the 6 mm four core SWA cable -  one end to flying leads, the other to a 125 Amp male plug. Amazingly stiff stuff that cable, but job done. Then flying leads made off to the compressor having first modified it's termination box to take a 20 mm SWA gland (original was 38 mm. Slight issue with the compressor panel isolator switch that wouldn't mate with it's actuator rod. Decided to fly by the seat of my pants and have the panel open and operate the switch internally.

Time to try things out :bugeye:

Started the generator, turn on the switch on the 125 amp socket (which felt a bit wishy washee) - turn on the compressor inside the panel and . . . . . . . NOTHING  :bang:

Out with the voltmeter - no volts in the compressor panel  - go to the generator to turn off and remove the plug - no chance - plug stuck FIRMLY in it's socket - what the heck  :scratch:

Now this socket is interlocked. It can only be turned on if a plug is inserted, and the plug cannot be removed unless it is turned off. OK after MUCH investigation I find that the operating shaft for it's switch has not engaged properly, knocking the actual switch unit off it's DIN rail and JAMMING THE INTERLOCK  :bang: This must have happened the last time that I put the fascia back on the socket.


Now this socket is designed such that you cannot get into it if switched on with a plug in it - exactly what I had. Two hours later, with much careful bending of plastic, poking and prodding eventually I break into this inner sanctum to reveal that the plastic retainers for the switch onto the DIN rail had broken. Getting a bit fed up by this time, so I carefully re-assembled the 125 amp switch on it's DIN rail, and applied hot melt glue in places that I sincerely hope will fix it in the correct place, then beat a retreat for a restorative Gin and Tonic.

Tomorrow the glue should be good and hard so I can start again, but initially I'm going to remove the interlock to avoid a repeat performance.

. . . at least nothing went bang  :lol:


Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: Pete. on December 18, 2019, 03:45:39 PM
Those damn interlock outlets I hate them with a passion. I can't tell you how many times I've been in that situation. If I have to use them on site I always grease the plug up so it slides in and out very easily because some of them you can get the plug not quite in far enough for the interlock to release properly and invariably something expensive breaks. If it's not that it's neanderthal operatives who don't undestand what an interlock is, but manage to unplug it anyway, destroying the mechanism.

I don't think I've ever seen one on site that lasted the job out intact.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 18, 2019, 04:27:03 PM
I went back out after supper and re-wired the main output switch - the heavy cables were still trying to pull it off it's mounting - I had to dress them back with a soft faced mallet quite brutally.

The interlock mechanism isn't going to jam again Pete, as I removed it and it's labelled up in a plastic bag in the cabinet  :lol:

I also manage to sort the cabinet interlock on the compressor itself, so hopefully ready for a re-run of the tests tomorrow - even here I daren't make the noise at this time of night !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on December 18, 2019, 06:06:30 PM

. . . at least nothing went bang
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 19, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
. . . and still hasn't Matthew  :thumbup:

Bright and early this morning I started up the generator and had another go. Control panel gave an error message saying that the main motor over-current trip had triggered:




Poking about in the compressor panel I found the offending breaker and reset it and tried again, this time it appeared that the motor actually started on power up despite being in manual mode, then reported an input over temperature alarm



So intensive study of the manual that I have, that refers to a controller that is markedly different to the one fitted, it can be configured to the in Auto or Manual mode and obviously I need to change it to manual. Nine buttons on my model, six in the manual and only a couple correspond  :bang:

I then opened up the covers to the compressor and found that the motor was warm. Could it perhaps be turning in the wrong direction? I had been extremely careful to keep the phases consistent  wiring up the generator, it's output socket, the interconnecting cable and the connection in the compressor panel, however probably worth a try. Two phases swapped  on the compressor input terminals and the generator re-started and another test.

Guess what, again it auto started, but this time with a blast of air emitting from the output pipe - cannot stop it with a hand over it, hand blows off at about 2 bar !

Load on the generator is barely discernible - the current meter moves just a tiny amount so I need to put a clamp ammeter on a cable the actually measure it.

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on December 19, 2019, 07:39:48 AM
Good job. Where do you think phase swap has been done? Usually in the easiest point at the either end of the power cable.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 19, 2019, 08:11:48 AM
At the moment I've swapped it inside the compressor control panel, being the easiest option. I need to hook up a 'known motor' to the generator and prove that it's o/p is correct and if not swap it. I do actually have a phase rotation meter tucked away somewhere so I suppose I really should give it an outing to the real world!

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 19, 2019, 09:47:12 AM
So it turns out that the generator is putting out the phases in the wrong rotational direction. Very odd - the wires from the alternator itself are very clearly colour coded and these codings were followed all the way to the output socket. However I've now reversed L1 & L2.

This was proved with my Phase Rotation Meter - for some reason I can't download the video I took from my 'phone although it plays on the 'phone  :scratch: This meter is basically a little motor spinning a disk whose direction indicates phasing.

So connections returned to standard on the Hydrovane control panel, and another test run with a clamp meter on phase 1, showing a 'rest' running current of 34.8 which is pretty well spot on the motor plate figure.

. . .still a puzzle why the main alternator is wrongly marked  :scratch:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: PekkaNF on December 19, 2019, 10:03:07 AM
uuuh....???? alternator magnetizing circuit polarity?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 19, 2019, 11:50:44 AM
Trying to get my head around that but I don't think that it would change the order of the phases, just the phase of the phases  :scratch:

Have a picture of the phase rotation meter just for the sake of completeness !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 21, 2019, 03:29:54 PM
Innovative use of Technology  :clap:


We have had a LOT of rain in the last few days resulting in our 10 acre field flooding to an average of four inches (*) (local river tops it's banks and comes visiting), so it  was no surprise to find a small puddle on the floor of the tractor shed under the generator but directly under the join in two roofing sheets.

But the timing seems strange - not directly as the heavens opened but some time later, so perhaps a  small coolant leak, but the water in the puddle looked very clear - how to prove it one way or the other  :scratch:

Well when filling the coolant up I had no idea if there was any anti-freeze in it or if so at what concentration, so I bought a cheap Brix diffraction meter calibrated in percentage Glycol. This will tell me if it's coolant or not!

With 15%  Glycol it's certainly NOT a roof leak, we have a minor coolant leak. Sure enough I found a flange with four studs that allowed a good turn per stud - it MAY be the leak but anyway I'm satisfied now what I need to look for !

(I calculate that we received AT LEAST 4,500 TONS of water yesterday - probably much more as it runs off pretty fast - most was gone by lunchtime today)
 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on December 23, 2019, 04:41:21 AM
I finally got the exhaust & Silencer assembly back on this morning, having given it a couple of coats of 'Stove Paint' - in matt black. Amazingly it took a full can and a half of aerosol (400 ml cans).

The exhaust manifold really should have a coat or two as well, but it's a horrid shape to mask up for spraying and I've not yet found a source of brushing stove paint.

Ran the generator up this morning to bake the paint - I was expecting quite a pong but it was surprisingly odourless  :thumbup:

Update: I have now found a source of brushing high temperature matt black stove paint, but it won't be here now until second week of January, by which time I'll be in Barcelona !
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 03, 2020, 09:13:49 AM
I've been chasing a small but persistent coolant leak for a few days, and eventually traced it to the flange between the head and the thermostat housing casting. I wanted to fix it before moving the generator to it's new home as it is far easier to get at things  where it is. The leak was dripping onto the charging alternator so definitely needed fixing.

There is a cross bar, bolted to the front engine lifting eye, that supports braces for the radiator, and this bar had been installed resting on the aluminium casting of the thermostat housing - probably for ease of setting out when it was built. This was no issue until I used the same cross bar to support the weight of the silencer. This weight was putting a shear force on the sealing flange and probably caused the leak in the first place.

The solution that I came up with was to raise the bar 6 mm and give it positive location not by resting on the casting, but by a pair of 1" angle iron verticals bolted to the generator chassis.

Verticals measured and test fitted then blown over with a coat of the same blue hammer finish paint, and put on one side whilst I investigated the thermostat housing / flange / gasket etc. Dismantling involved removing the associated rubber coolant hoses, an action that was far easier to write about than do! I'd hoped that I could re-use the originals, but they are rather manky. New silicone ones ordered (FOUR different diameters! 45, 47 50 and 51 mm!)

Unbolting the leaking flange I was surprised to see that it held two thermostats, each operating at 74 degrees C, and plumbed in parallel, presumably to double the flow :scratch:

Cleaning things up I drew up the gasket flange in Autocad, ported it over to the laser cutter as a DXF and cut some gaskets in two different gasket materials. The removed gasket looks to have been a cork one and hand cut, with bits over laying the thermostat bore in places. I'm not sure how thick it needs to be to set the right 'pinch'  for the thermostats, hence cutting a few. I tested the thermostats in boiling water to prove that they opened - I didn't measure the temperature but frankly it's not that important so long as they open!

Hoses not arriving until middle of next week by which time I'll be in Barcelona, so play will resume when I return.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 05, 2020, 11:26:54 AM
I had a pleasant surprise on Saturday evening when a knock at the door announced a Hermes delivery with my hoses that weren't due to arrive until Tuesday.

So today I set too. All fairly straight forwards but actually not simple as everything is extremely tight both to fit and to get at.

I started by fitting the cast elbow with it's two (different diameter !) hoses then moved on to the thermostat housing. As I had anticipated, the gasket thickness was critical, and initially assembling it with a single thin paper gasket I could slip a 5 thou feeler gauge between the faces when bolted up tight as the thermostats themselves were being pinched.  I ended up using the two red fibre gaskets which are each just under 1 mm and it tightened up seemingly OK.

Filling it up with the six gallons of coolant that I'd drained off for this exercise all seemed well. I started it up and watched it running for five minutes while I cleared away my tools.  Still all seemed well so I left it running while I cleaned myself up and downloaded these pictures allowing time for the generator to come up to temperature.

Going back to turn it off there was water EVERYWHERE  :bugeye:  The hose clip on the end of the heat exchanger  had worked it's way off the end of the pipe  :bang:

Now it had been murder tight but these silicone hoses are quite slippery and the pipes that they go onto have a cast in bulge to help sealing but in this case it leaves very little room between the end of the bulge and the end of the hose for a clip to sit, and if it's too close to the  bulge you are tightening the clip on a tapering bit of pipe, which is what I think had happened.

Never mind, forgo lunch, drain down again, and re-make the joint :doh:

Second time round we seem to be OK - I left it again to come up to temperature, and, fingers crossed I think we are OK.

All a bit of a pain but at least it's done  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 13, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
One last job to do to complete the 'vermin barriers' on the generator - cover the holes in the bell housing.

I've been telling myself for a while that there is no need to do this, they just give access to where a clutch could be housed (although of course there is not one fitted) so just the engine to alternator coupling in there - no insulated wires to tempt them in to chew.

But the realisation that if a rat or more likely a squirrel, were to set up home in there, and I then started the generator, clearing out the ensuing mess would NOT be pleasant  :bugeye:

So - simple job, draw up a cover taking it's mesh size from the existing ones that are on the alternator itself, and CNC plasma two (one each side), slap a coat of paint on, drill and tap holes in the bell housing to retain them then off for a cup of tea.

. . . well jobs don't always go to plan do they  :bang:

The cast iron of the bell housing must be well chilled - it is as hard as a witches t*****y. Wanted to tap it M4, so 3.3 mm tapping drill. First drill bit went nowhere - never mind I have the remains of a box of ten HSS 3.3 drills. Next one blunted almost immediately. No cobalt drill in this size, so tried a 2.5 mm that I had to hand - it made a hole and then snapped on break through.

. . . so I've ordered up some 3.3 mm Cobalt drills, and when they arrive we'll see how gently I can drill some more holes. The tapping might get interesting as well !

Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on January 13, 2020, 11:01:12 AM
"but it won't be here now until second week of January, by which time I'll be in Barcelona ...."

Have you been and come back already? :lol:   I must have dozed off...  :coffee:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 13, 2020, 11:23:35 AM
John, if you look 'up thread' they arrived early and I fitted them (with only a minor trauma) before I went and yes now I'm back after a brief dalliance with Gaudi architecture, Tapas, and Bull Rings  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: John Rudd on January 13, 2020, 04:56:11 PM
Ahhh, and here's me thinking you were off on your jolly holidays.... :ddb:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 13, 2020, 05:04:21 PM
Those four days WERE my jolly holidays. We can only both get away when we can get farm sitters  :med:

(I got 6 days last year )
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on January 13, 2020, 05:33:18 PM
John, if you look 'up thread' they arrived early and I fitted them (with only a minor trauma) before I went and yes now I'm back after a brief dalliance with Gaudi architecture, Tapas, and Bull Rings  :clap:

Ah, Gaudi!

Cheers, Matthew
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 13, 2020, 05:44:37 PM
Well at least the conversion of the Bull Ring into a shopping / eating / venue place was masterminded by British architect Richard Rogers, but then poor old Gaudi was a bit tied up having been squashed by a tram in 1924, and after all he was 74 at the time so perhaps couldn't manage the Bull Ring. Even the Cathedral he designed, and was buried in, still isn't finished  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: tom osselton on January 13, 2020, 05:44:51 PM
You could have a plate that sits on top but clamps on the back by screws / bolts.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 16, 2020, 06:35:20 AM
The magic 3.3 mm Cobalt drills arrived this morning so I could get on and fit the grilles.

I did manage to snap one of them despite extreme care - the inner face of the casting has a steep taper, so one flute of the drill breaks through before the other is ready to emerge and thus grabs and snaps, but six holes drilled and tapped at the expense of one lost drill isn't too bad considering how unbelievably hard this cast iron is.

Now the hunt is on for a suitable housing for the generator. A 15 foot container would be just about ideal, but I don't think they come that length - tens, twenties and forties are usual. I need an internal space of at least 13 foot x 6 foot but within reason more is better.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on January 16, 2020, 06:38:32 AM
Well at least the conversion of the Bull Ring into a shopping / eating / venue place was masterminded by British architect Richard Rogers, but then poor old Gaudi was a bit tied up having been squashed by a tram in 1924, and after all he was 74 at the time so perhaps couldn't manage the Bull Ring. Even the Cathedral he designed, and was buried in, still isn't finished  :clap:

Gaudi Roberts, chalk and cheese!
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 16, 2020, 07:02:04 AM
To be frank neither Gaudi nor Rogers is to my taste architecturally Matthew. Neo classical for public buildings and vernacular for housing suits me better.

. . . .now go find me a 15 foot container  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: edward on January 16, 2020, 07:57:55 AM
20-footer, Stihl saw, 8 miles of MIG wire and dogged determination should see a 15-footer :-)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on January 16, 2020, 08:26:54 AM

. . . .now go find me a 15 foot container  :clap:

You mean a 4.5metre one?
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 16, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
I'm no expert, but I rather suspect they are designed and specified in feet pretty well world wide  (ISO Standard now)  having American roots, just as continental threaded pipe fittings in the 'G' series (which seems to predominate) are directly derived from BSP in UK inch measurements  :clap:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 16, 2020, 08:42:32 AM
20-footer, Stihl saw, 8 miles of MIG wire and dogged determination should see a 15-footer :-)

Yes I'd have no issues having a go, but alignment might be a bit tricky. Just been watching a YouTube video where a Chinese factory was making a 40 foot container EVERY 3.5 MINUTES for a German customer :bugeye:
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: mattinker on January 18, 2020, 09:34:32 AM
I'm no expert, but I rather suspect they are designed and specified in feet pretty well world wide  (ISO Standard now)  having American roots, just as continental threaded pipe fittings in the 'G' series (which seems to predominate) are directly derived from BSP in UK inch measurements  :clap:
Andrew,
Well, never thought you'd take it seriously! Yes, containers are always in feet! I seem to remember having had a conversation with you a couple of years ago on the "metric" BSP pipe threads, fittings quite often have "inch" markings on them!! Another international use on the inch and fractions of it are square drive sockets. Anyway, to cap it all, the inch was defined as 25.4mm in 1959!

Cheers mate, Matthew
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: edward on January 18, 2020, 05:03:22 PM
It's always rather tickled me that the German DIN standard Scuba regulator connector has a G5/8 thread :-)
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on January 19, 2020, 02:47:09 AM
Yes itís nice to see Whitworth form threads still exist in the modern world and crop up in the most surprising places. Joseph would be (rightly) proud that all his work wasnít in vain.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: V8DRUID on March 04, 2020, 07:36:52 PM
Thanks chaps  :thumbup:

Today's objectives:

A/ Remove and identify battery charging alternator

B/ Strip out the old relay controller and it's wiring.

Now this charging alternator has a pressed plate on the rear secured by three slotted head screws, but in such a position that you can't easily get a screw driver at them due to the oil filter housing, and they were VERY tight. They'd been soaking in 'Plusgas' over night but even so I ended up having to use my impact driver - anyway eventually they unscrewed revealing a mess and a bodge. The main output 'faston' terminal has obviously grossly over heated and is corroded and slack, and one of the other terminals has been bodged with ty-wraps and what looks like a bolt  :scratch:

Now previously I'd mentioned a mystery wire from a water temperature sensor that went into the alternator - no, the cable just passes through and behind the rear plate so at least that mystery is solved.

Try as I might I could not shift the through pivot mounting bolt, again it's not in the easiest of places but never the less it's 'spanner bending tight' and has been given another anointment of Plusgas.

It seems that the engine has  'pad mount' provision for an alternator, but has a bracket attached to the pad converting it to a more conventional 'J180' mounting but the spacing of the pivot 'ears' is rather short at  about 75 mm. It may be that I end up removing the pad mount adaptor and alternator as one and attack it on the bench.

The external charging alternator controller is a CAV 440A so I suppose it is probable that the alternator itself is a CAV - if anyone recognises it please shout. I think I'd prefer to replace it with one with an integral regulator but if I can get  it off I'll take it to my local 'auto electrician' who rebuilds starters and alternators and see what he has to say about it.

Identical to what I used to have on a Grove TMS180 crane and on my Ransome Rapier HS10 crane .... regrettably i can not for the life of me recall the makers name ..... the control units went wrong for a past time and always had a few spares sat about ... and a second unit on board the Grove .... which lived in the cab and was an easy change when the charge light failed to go out/came on .... the name will come to me ... eventually
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: awemawson on March 05, 2020, 02:56:16 AM
All fixed now thanks Graeme.,

Itís a CAV unit. The original was pretty trashed, rear bearing has collapsed peppering the slip rings. I sourced a working unit with noisy bearing and Put new bearings in and it worked fine, but Iíve also recently rebuilt the original unit as a spare.
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: V8DRUID on March 05, 2020, 03:21:06 PM
Joe, the paint was from Bitec who feature on eBay:

http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/MDA-Bitec/Hamer-Finish-/_i.html?_fsub=25448221011&_sid=210466991&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

!

I use Firwood Paints, Bolton, for my hammer finish paints ..... and just about every other paint requirement ...
used them for decades ... good prices and excellent products ...
their oil and petrol resisting aluminium primer is just awesome and incredibly long lasting as a finish with a couple of coats .. looks like a galv finish and stays the course for years 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: V8DRUID on March 05, 2020, 03:36:26 PM
Yes there's a version of that type of switch on ebay that caught my eye - but when these things are exposed on vehicles or plant I'm not at all keen on flying leads - once ripped off that's it!

It'll be interesting to see how the surface mount switch survives vibration fixed to the engine - not that there is much, it runs pretty smoothly. Dead easy to change though now, just two M3 screws and no need to drain down :thumbup:

We had almost the exact same devices bolted to the side of the combustion chambers for the gas tumble driers in my launderettes and had remarkably little trouble with them

looks like the same unit as bolted to the back of the oven in our 'Stoves' induction range cooker .. controls over heat for the over head grill element .. and IIRC is open circuit at overheat 
Title: Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
Post by: V8DRUID on March 05, 2020, 03:43:06 PM

So at the moment I'm thinking option B but would very much welcome comments from anyone reading this.

a bit 'heath' .... but how about individual, suitably colour coded, 250A welding leads with dinse plugs/sockets ... they'd handle the current, be very flexible .... and as it's only you using it ... on your head be it, getting the connections wrong .. as long as you're not colour blind  :) :)