Author Topic: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine  (Read 186895 times)

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #225 on: September 01, 2009, 09:07:38 AM »
Stew, does this not tie up with the dimensions on the drawings?

I definitely feel confident it will work when this is sorted. It's a comlicated beast!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #226 on: September 01, 2009, 10:42:20 AM »
Hi Nick

No it doesn't tie up with the drawing I measured and remeasured everything up and I've made it very close to drawing, I,ve taken an additional 1.1mm per side off the dummy valve, this wasn't quite enough so I've just taken another 0.25mm per side off this is a little too much I think 1.2 mm per side should just about do it.

At this the inlet port opens half way, I was under the impression that it was to open fully but I really can't see how to get it to open fully with this set up, it starts to close at bottom dead centre and it fully closes half way to back dead centre, giving the 75% lead Curly talked about it the write up.

Had a bit of excitement with the excentric tumblers the little slotted grub screws that locks it in position gave up on the job what with all the adjustment I was doing the slot strip I couldn't get it in and I couldn't get it out, so with a hand drill I drilled it out using the tapping drill size, cleaned it out with a tap with all the lead ground off it, worked a treat panic over  :thumbup:

Stubborn and won't be beaten

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #227 on: September 01, 2009, 12:05:28 PM »
Stubborn and won't be beaten

Stew

By `ek Stew........ Yer not wrong!   :thumbup:

I really admire your tenacity......   :bow:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #228 on: September 01, 2009, 02:01:30 PM »
Stew,

I will take the valve chest cover off mine and measure. Looking at the drawing, it does seem like there is too much meat on the valve though, it calls for X = A + 3/16" but as you say, I don't think those design dimensions you mention below are the whole picture. Surely the overall length has to be some sort of function of the maximum throw of the eccentric as well.

The port should open fully though, you need to be able to set the valves as per those instructions otherwise it will never work as well as it should. Do you have the screw reverser set to full forward or full reverse?

Nick

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #229 on: September 01, 2009, 02:18:50 PM »
Hi Nick if you could measure yours up it would be a great help.

Just to correct your post X = A + 1/16"

I've measured the valve travel and its about 7/16" I think you lose a bit with the lifting link not keeping a straight line. if you could measure your valve travel that would be useful.

I think I may take the linkage out again tomorrow and measure it up and check if I can get any more travel there may be something catching.

The screw reverser is set fully forward with no more travel available on the lifting link.

Thanks a Lot

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #230 on: September 01, 2009, 05:35:59 PM »
Stew,

I meant on the drawings for mabel it calls for a valve 15/16" long, and the distance between the extreme of each inlet port is 3/4".

I've just stripped the cover plate off and my valves are exactly 15/16" long as per the drawing. Valve travel is almost blob on 1/2".

With the reverser set fully forward and the right hand piston at TDC (fully forward) the front inlet port is just starting to crack. By the time the crank gets to about 45 degrees after TDC the port is fully open and it stays like that until the crank is at 90 degrees after TDC. At this point it starts to shut, and by about 45 degrees before BDC the front inlet port is shut. Once at BDC the rear inlet port is starting to crack to push the piston back the other way.

I've taken some photographs, will upload them now but I don't think they will have come out too well due to the light conditions.

I realised looking at mine that when I set the timing many moons ago, I didn't have the instructions from model engineer and was chasing myself around in circles too. I managed to get it to run well forwards, but looking at the way I have the eccentrics set, there's no bloomin' wonder I couldn't get it to go in reverse! It also reminded me of those pathetic little grub screws that 'lock' them onto the shaft. How that was ever meant to work I don't know, will need to do something about it for sure, but I forgot how thin the eccentrics were.

Hope this is of some use. Don't skim those valves yet!

TDC


TDC again


45 deg after TDC


90- deg after TDC


45 deg before BDC


BDC


Nick

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #231 on: September 02, 2009, 01:47:16 AM »
Nick

Thanks for all the trouble you've taken, thats certainly helped me, it would appear that my engine hasn't get enough valve travel, I won't touch the slide valves but check the linkage out again to see why I'm not getting 1/2" of travel.

Also noticed you're engine has oil feed holes on the rockers, drawing didn't call for them so I left them out, but I'll now add them.

Thanks again

Stew

 
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #232 on: September 02, 2009, 05:28:40 AM »
Stew,

No problem. I'm going to start stripping the engine down now to clean and paint since my son keeps going on about it. I've promised it will be ready for Christmas - maybe a bold claim! When the bits are easier to get at I will take any other pictures / measurements you might need.

if you're getting 7/16" travel I don't understand why your ports don't open fully. Mine probably open around 1/32" past fully open so yours should I think.

I think something is still a miss with the timing some how, puzzling!  :scratch:

Do you have any ideas on what to do with the eccentrics?

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #233 on: September 02, 2009, 06:34:16 AM »
Hi Nick

Just completly stripped the linkage down and inspected it for signs of fouling and measured it all up:- found that I was a bit short with the slot in the sliding link and the little sliding block was slightly over size so I've corrected this and whilst I was at it for good measure I extended some of the slots so that nothing would stick.

I'll put it all back together tomorrow and see how it goes

Thanks for your help

Stew




A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #234 on: September 02, 2009, 06:47:04 AM »
It's handy this because you've seen the thing from scratch and I've got the complete thing so we can help each other out!

That is the only thing I could think that would give you more valve throw as well.

There are only 3 things. The offset on the eccentrics, the length of the slot and sliding block in expansion link as you said, and the length of the bottom lever on rocking arms.

I think that should do the trick, it'll be a matter of timing now. Fingers crossed.  :smart: :thumbup:

With regards to putting the oil holes in rocker arms, I presume you can get under the boiler with the oil can, in which case it be a good idea I guess. Will check if you like.

I was looking at the lubricator, I found an old file the other day with some scribbled notes. I don't think it gave enough throw on the lubricator. There isn't much soace for the arm to move on it, from one extreme to the other it only gives 1 click on the ratchet on mine, so maybe it needs a ratchet wheel with more teeth if I can't get it to throw enough. The problem will be if you get too much throw it will foul the frames etc, but not enough will not be enough to turn the wheel!

does your axle pump have a by pass valve anywhere in the plumbing? Mine doesn't but the bore seems tiny so maybe it's assumed it just needs to pump all the time? Seems strange not being able to adjust it though.

Good luck.

Nick

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #235 on: September 02, 2009, 06:58:33 AM »
Hi Nick

Yes fingers crossed

I spotted that the drawing does call for oil feed in the rockers, with me remaking them I just missed them. To oil the loco I guess the best way would be to make some long get anyware nozzles for you oil can.

I've not made the lubricator yet when I do get round to it I'm going to follow a design from ME thats uses poppet valves and clutch bearing to get away from the ratchet arm design I think this will be less troublesome.

Sorry I havn't built the axle pump yet that's one adventure to come along with the lubrucator.

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #236 on: September 03, 2009, 11:30:02 AM »

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Video to follow

Stew


A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #237 on: September 03, 2009, 12:34:44 PM »
Well persitance payed off:-

After checking and modifying the linkage yet again I put it all together, with the vavles as drawn just couldn't get the valve timing correct so decided to cast caution to the wind and modify the slide valve to the sizes I'd worked out and tested on the dummy.

Made an adaptor and pluged bits up that are not required for air runing, hooked it up to the compressor and turn the valve and away she went



Whops just realised the video is of her running in reverse she go in both direction, just wind the reverser and she changes direction.

Just ran her for an hour

 :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:

Very happy
big grin

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #238 on: September 03, 2009, 01:00:33 PM »


YEE...... HAaaarrr!  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

Blummin well done Stew!  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #239 on: September 03, 2009, 01:01:40 PM »
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well done, I knew you'd get there  :thumbup:

I bet there's a smile on your face that will take quite a while to wipe off  :)


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline rleete

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #240 on: September 03, 2009, 01:29:27 PM »
You have now become "Choochoo Stew". :lol:
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #241 on: September 03, 2009, 01:33:09 PM »
 :beer: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :beer:..... Or something like that  :thumbup:




Nice one Stew..... Glad to see your hard work paid off. An inspiration to many who like me have stuff on the shelves!!!!  :dremel:






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #242 on: September 03, 2009, 01:37:29 PM »
Well done Stew!  :clap: :clap: :D :)  :beer: :thumbup:

That is about how far my chassis is stripped down now!

Are you confident your eccentrics will hold now? I was thinking of taking them off once I've got them set right drilling right through and pinning, or do you think they may need adjusting as things wear?

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline dsquire

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #243 on: September 03, 2009, 02:03:50 PM »
Stew  :bow:

You just had to do it. You had us sitting on the edge of our seats in eager anticipation   :coffee: every time we logged on. Now you are going to have to put up with being showered with all kinds of verbal congratulations not to mention the onslaught of  :D :ddb: :) :ddb: :ddb: :) :ddb: :D


Cheers  :beer: :beer: :beer:

Don

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Offline ozzie46

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #244 on: September 03, 2009, 02:16:46 PM »
 Way to go Stew   :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow::clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


  Ron

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #245 on: September 03, 2009, 02:19:59 PM »
Wow thanks chaps

Your support and contributions was much appreciated

I did a lap round the garden when she fired up,

Have you noticed I've started to call it she quite unconcously  :scratch: I suppose thats ok know that she's burst into life.

Just got back from having a celabratory steak and glass of wine.

Nick  

I'm going to leave things alone for a while the long term plan when things settle down and when a finally get round to running her on steam, is to mark the tumbler position and drill into the axle to take the point of the grub screw.

One happy

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline shoey51

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #246 on: September 03, 2009, 03:42:05 PM »
well done stew she looks prety good to me mate :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:

Offline arnoldb

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #247 on: September 03, 2009, 03:47:22 PM »
Whooo Whooo ! Well done Stew !!!!!!!!!!!!  :D :) :D :) :D :headbang: :headbang:

Quote
Have you noticed I've started to call it she quite unconcously
:smart: That was your problem!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol: - She was a she right from the start!  :lol:

Serious congratulations  :beer: I'll join you on a drink  :beer:

 :beer:, Arnold

Offline kvom

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #248 on: September 03, 2009, 04:07:57 PM »
That video is hypnotic.  Nice job!  :clap:

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
« Reply #249 on: September 03, 2009, 07:18:00 PM »
Nice 1 Stew, that sounds better and a bit less drastic than my idea!

Well done again!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)