Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection

[awemawson]

That Fluke has served me well man and boy ! I actually have three of them in strategic locations around the site 

[John Rudd]

That Fluke has served me well man and boy

I was issued with exactly the same model, when I was a tech at British Gas working at the terminal...(32 yrs ago....)

[awemawson]

Well it's newer than my Avo 8 

Been playing withe the Deep Sea 3110 controller. All very odd, I've wired a pair of those 'wedge bulbs' up to simulate the Fuel & Starter solenoids and despite being able to initiate a 'start sequence' neither ever come on, and eventually it times out 'failed to start after programmed number of attempts'. Now I can make it fail by programming the  oil pressure switch inversely - it thinks that the engine failed to stop ! And even more oddly Emergency Stop has no effect what so ever - I can program it to operate either on Opening (ie usual way) or closing, and neither have any effect

I should perhaps mention that I have downloaded the Deep Sea configuration utility that lets me talk  to it via USB. Opening it up, the innards are the usual amorphous surface mount devices with little indication of function, but it looks as though it's core functions are working but elements of it's input / output have hit the deck 

[John Rudd]

Does it need to see a live speed input from a speed probe?
What about gen volts from the alternator? ( either single or 3 ph...)
I see it has 6 dig ins....some are user configurable...are these active?

[awemawson]

John it can be set to use an inductive pick up, but currently is set to monitor engine speed deriving it from one phase of the generated output and a fiddle factor. Yes the digital  inputs can be individually configured for sense of the contact, and action on the alarm. However the eStop one is fixed apart from the sense of it's contact (which I've tried both ways)

Of course as it is not driving either the fuel solenoid or the starter relay, not sensing speed is rather academic as it won't start anyway!

[John Rudd]

But....
Is it looking for gen volts at cranking speed....
So if a start is initated, it would energise the fuel solenoid, and the starter motor, it would then expect the starter to turn the engine over and as its directly coupled, be looking for an increase in speed or a rise in alternator volts?

The eStop is a puzzler unless there's an issue with the input circuitry.... But then I wouldnt expect it to use software to shut the unit down....
What heppens to the 'fuel solenoid' or lightbulb... When it is energised and you toggle the estop input?
Does it do anything? Like go off or remain on?

[awemawson]

The point is JOHN that at the moment it is never energizing either output either in the machine or on the bench. So no cranking so no generated volts anyway !

So I reckon that it’s kaput . When the new one arrives and I’ve made a back up of its current state I will reflash the faulty one, but not until number two is in my hand!

[John Rudd]

If the software is corrupt it wont help will it?

Are you flashing the new one with the same code?.... 

If the code is ok, cant you just reflash the unit anyway? Got nothing to lose as its broke anyway.....

[awemawson]

There is a later version of the firmware that I would use. I'm not doing it yet just in case I'm missing something and it's finger trouble on my behalf!

[awemawson]

In limbo mode at the moment waiting for the new controller, though I did manage a major tidy up (amazing how many tools you get out !)

First 'real' thing I did was to measure the coil current  for the Fuel and Starter relays - max for the controller is 2 amps and I'm drawing 60 mA so no problems there!

Then although the controller specification says it has protection on these drivers, I added back emf diodes to both relays 'just in case' - after all both outputs have blown!

Then I pushed the boat out and ordered 12 metres of 35 mm CSA 'meter tails' to wire up the output socket, having eventually decided that the enormous tails that came with it were just TOO big to squeeze into the terminations even with paring down.

Then in anticipation of the new controller arriving I made up the new and hopefully correct length cable form to connect it to the Gathering DIN terminals.

At this point I decided that a bit or forensic investigation of what I previously connected up wrong would be a good idea - it turns out that I had connected the oil pressure and water temperature switches not to their intended destinations, but to the 'auto start' terminals. In this mode the controller tries to start up the engine as soon as it sees power. But I  was reconnecting the negative battery terminal, so at  the instant contact was made, the controller started the starter with attendant huge current flow, and I suspect that I probably pulled back when it arced, so power was probably going on and off a few times. Maybe this caused spikes killing the control

[awemawson]

As part of my bench testing of the new controller when it arrives, I intend to have monitoring on it's inputs and outputs, and I decided that actually it would be quite handy to have indicators permanently wired. I had several 24 volt ac/dc LED panel indicators, so I made up labels for:

a/ Fuel Solenoid
b/ Starter Solenoid
c/ Oil Pressure
d/ Engine Overheat
e/ Not Charging

All this inputs and outputs are wired to or from this panel anyway, so incorporating them is relatively simple. I had hoped to get away with the original coat of paint by the expedient of covering it with masking tape prior to drilling, but no it made a mess. So it got stripped, sand blasted and re-painted this morning. Do you add holes or remove them 

I also made up a little box to house a Neutrik  20 amp socket which will be connected to the 24 volt battery and allow the internal battery charger to be easily removed - it will be bolted to the rear cabinet panel with Rivinut inserts.

The hugely expensive roll of 35 mm 'meter tails' arrived just as we were going out (grand child to see Farmagenddon - a disappointment - not a patch on previous Aardman productions like Chicken Run) so they remain to be hammered into place tomorrow.

[hermetic]

"Do you add holes or remove them"? It is the same with gears andrew, do you cut the teeth, or the gaps between them? Who really knows, but the truth is out there!
Bad luck with the DS controller, I have done very similar things when my train of thought is disturbed when wiring.
Phil

[awemawson]

Today was the day to start wrestling with Sea Serpents 

I'd forgotten just how hard it is to manipulate 35 mm csa meter tails, and five of them together isn't half hard on the hands ! Some months ago a friend had been clearing out a garage abandoned by one of her tenants, and one or two tools came my way including the correct tool for stripping the outer and inner sheaths of this double insulated cable, and I must say it makes the job far easier and indeed neater as well.

So, select the correct hexagonal dies for the hydraulic crimper, strip a length of the outer sheath to indicate which conductor it is when mounted, then strip the correct length of inner sheath to expose the copper that will actually enter the crimp lug. With the lug lightly gripped in the crimper, insert the cable end, and pump the handles until the preset pressure is reached and it clicks like a torque wrench.

Very simple in essence, but as I installed the first lug onto the stud of the generator output terminals I noticed ever so slight movement between the copper and the lug - that is a FAULTY crimp thinks I.

Turns out that the pre-set on that crimper is out of trim - fortunately I have a second one so re-made the crimp with that, which although it forms a similar hexagonal crimp, doesn't take the same series of dies.

When I came to the Earth / Green / Yellow cable, fortunately I noticed that the copper wires of the cable were wrapped in a very thin cellophane layer under the main sheath - just waiting to be missed in a dark cabinet and effectively insulate the copper from the lug 

Much pushing and pulling and lashing with huge Ty-Wraps and the monster was largely contained - I'm never happy with jobs like these as I find the extremely stiff cables hard to lay neatly.

[awemawson]

While I was subduing sea monsters the replacement Deep Sea 3110 controller arrived, so next job is to wire it into a test set up on the bench (well my desk really!)

Once it was all wired and double checked, and I made a diversion to save a maiden in distress who had had a trailer come uncoupled on the A21 and suitable calming down coffees and handkerchiefs had been applied (same maiden from whence the cable sheath stripper was sourced !!) I was able to apply power and try it out.

I'm delighted to be able to report that it performs as I'd expect. Pressing 'Start' it powers up the fuel solenoid shortly followed by the starter solenoid, and cranks away merrily until it's 'failed to start' timer expires - well it has no engine attached so of course it doesn't start !. It repeats this sequence three times then gives up and reports 'failed to start' by symbol on the screen.

I'll hold off wiring it into the generator until tomorrow when I'm a bit fresher !

 

[tom osselton]

Great work as always!
I see the non functioning like button has disappeared.

[awemawson]

Thanks Tom for the kind words.

Tomorrow first thing I need to do is rig up a pair of switches to simulate low oil pressure and high temperature. They are both normally closed switches on the engine, but I've inverted their functions in the software set up at the moment to aid testing, but do want to ensure that they actually work - there was far too much excitement last time I rigged the controller !

[awemawson]

First thing today I drilled yet another switch hole in the control panel, messing up the paint again ! I think this time it may get a label stuck over it 

I decided that it would be far safer to have a key operated switch isolating the supply to the DSE3110 controller to prevent fiddling - now I only have momentary key switches 'on hand' so I've ordered a two position key actuator and put a normal switch head on until it arrives.

Then I went ahead and lashed in a pair of switches to better understand how the control handles Oil Pressure and Temperature errors. Both are normally closed switches but the control expects the Oil switch to be fleeting, and open as the engine runs, whereas the Temperature switch should be always closed. The slight complication for this is I want the Open state of the temperature switch to turn on my panel light. This was easily solved by putting the switch in parallel with the indicator and having a pull up (1K5 ohms) actually drive the indicator in fault conditions.

All seemed fine, so I took the plunge and installed the panel, being acutely aware that it was at this point last time that things went horribly wrong.  Not so this time.  Pressing the Start button resulted in the generator starting - How novel  However the controller stopped the engine after 15 seconds reporting 'Over Heat' - obviously it was not ACTUALLY over heated - I'd not fully mastered the control and had set it up with the Heat switch operating anti-phase.

Another thing that I'd noticed was I'd left it set up for showing Phase / Neutral volts rather than Phase / Phase - another simple bit of configuration.

Just a simple re-configuration of the controller via it's USB port, but do I shove the software on a laptop and do it 'on site' or do I un-wire the control panel and do it back at base.

Obviously advantageous to have the software on a laptop for the future, so I tried loading it to my robust XP based Panasonic Toughbook, but it was having none of it. So I pulled my domestic Win7 based laptop out of the house and had far better success - there is something distinctly peculiar about configuring a 1970's generator via a laptop 

So I made the two tweaks and it all does as expected - Oil Light initially illuminated as is the 'Not Charging' light until the engine starts when they both go off, and as the engine is stopped the Not Charging stays alight until the engine is almost stationary, and the oil light comes on quite a few seconds later as the pressure decays - all very satisfactory.

After that success I installed the socket for the Trickle Charger, and re-wired the charger itself - this is to keep the batteries alive long term as the generator site idle most of it's time.

So not much to do now apart from sorting out some safety panels in the main cabinet to keep fingers out of  live bits, and to re-engineer the exhaust so it is integral with the generator as far as moving it is concerned.

[John Rudd]

Good work Andrew....


I commissioning new/old stuff....fault finding especially...

[awemawson]

Thanks John, it's been quite an interesting learning exercise, which I suppose is a lot to do with why I  do these things.

Just need to make it a bit more transportable to be able to shift it to its final location - I may put temporary axles and wheels through the pair of holes that pierce the lower RSJs (I still have a set  of four very heavy duty low speed wheels that I used to move my Induction Furnace down to the bottom of the garden at my last place all those years ago. That involved an OSB 'road' over a soft lawn !)

[hermetic]

ON BOYS! ON TO THE FURNACE!! Your week has been good Andrew, mine so far has involved, in no particular order, a failed freezer and a blocked drain at my mothers, which looks like it is actually caused by a full septic tank down the garden , about 2 ft under a greenhouse, my wifes stairlift failed same day, and is in bits and bound for the workshop tomorrow, and to cap it all tonight my youngest daughter (14) sends me to the supermarket to buy halloween sweets, then tells me when I get back she is "off with her mates" and leaves me on door duty   I have had enough of this week, and its only Thursday! Tommorow I will get some shop time, albeit on the stairlift which I will chuck up on the tube as this weeks video, along with a few other bits.
The generator looks splendid, and is now worth many times what you paid I bet! can't wait to see it used in anger on the furnace, good luck with it all!
Phil

[Pete.]

You're doing better than we did at work today. We're running a quite new towable 70kva genny (hired in) on a job and today I asked one of the lads to go up and find out why we suddenly had no power (genny is on the next level up). He leaned over the wall and shouted "IT'S ON FIRE!". I ran up there thinking it's maybe a burnt out plug but no, it was fully on fire and of course they had opened the enclosure door so what was a cloud of smoke turned into an inferno as soon as it got some proper oxygen to breathe.

We put it out with a powder fire extinguisher. On inspection it looks like the 12v battery leads had rubbed together before finally shorting and setting the insulation alight.

[awemawson]

Bad luck, a lot of energy in Lead Acid batteries waiting to leap out.

Your fire reminds me of when my ‘road compressor’ burst into flames when I was grit blasting. Luckily just a diesel pipe leaking and soon put out with a CO2 extinguisher but quite dramatic.

[PekkaNF]

Very good work and write up. I learned lot of new stuff again.

Did I understand it right that this has three completely isolated power distribution systems:

1: "Domestic" plugged into mains power normally on 1 phase 240 VAC:
* Startter battery charger
* Diesel engine heater?

2: Low voltage circuit diesel engine control system:
* starter/alternator/battery
* Engine health transducers
* Deepsea genset controller + generator output monitoring

3: Generator line (out)
* This has no connection to other systems (other than current transformers and voltage measurement)
* Are all line output terminals wired? How is ground and neutral wired?

I have a small diesel generator, output is galvanically totally isolated from the genset I.E. totally floating - there is separate terminal to ground the unit.

[awemawson]

Pekka, yes essentially that's it.

a/ The 'domestic' 240 / single phase input keeps the starting battery topped up, keeps the control cabinet dry with a 60 watt tubular 'greenhouse' heater, and warms the engine water jacket with a 200 watt immersion heater, and all three items are independently switched on the front panel.

b/ When the generator is in use the 24 volt starter battery is charged by the AC5-24 vehicle alternator running off the fan belt and this 24 volts is used as you say for engine function monitoring as well as running the Deep Sea 3110 controller. I'm not sure how advisable it would be to leave the trickle charger on when the engine is running, but that seems to be the way it was previously used.

c/ The main generator alternator is wired through a 225 amp breaker / isolator that is labelled as having been modified to trip at 150 amps, and is wired from there directly to the huge 125 amp five pin (L1, L2, L3, N, E) 'Commando Socket' that includes an isolator switch that is interlinked, so the plug cannot be withdrawn unless it is in the 'off' position.

From the generator output and before the breaker / isolator are three thin voltage sensing wires for the phases that previously went directly to the voltmeter switching on the front panel with no fuse or earth leakage protection. I have run them via a modified 'consumer unit' incorporating a 30 mA RCD earth leakage trip and a 6 amp MCB (as that's the lowest value that seems to be available - one amp would be more than enough)

The only points of contact between the systems are:

a/ The Trickle charger and the vehicle alternator could both charge the batteries if left switched on

b/ The Deep Sea 3110 takes in L1 and Neutral to monitor voltage / frequency etc and this I derive from the 30 mA RCD protected and 6 amp MCB protected source, but it also goes through a 2 amp wire fuse 'just in case'

At the moment chassis earth and Neutral are not connected - they probably will be and they were originally, but it's handy to have them isolated for leakage testing.

It all sounds more complicated than it really is when you work with it day in day out as I have for the last five weeks!

[John Rudd]

Andrew,
Are you going to earth the Neutral of the generator?

If so you ought to consider connecting it via an NER with fault current monitoring in case of Phase to earth faults....

But I guess if the sole use of the genset is for the furnace and there's phase breakers for protection it may not be needed....

Perhaps an un-necessary complication....