Author Topic: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection  (Read 20069 times)

Offline awemawson

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As some of you will be aware I've been looking for a large generator set for a while to re-commission my 100 kVA Induction Furnace. Although I have an adequate 3 phase supply into the farm I am seriously concerned that any problems commissioning might result in a major failure of the local electricity supply network and provoke unwanted questions  :bugeye:

I settled on a set made by George Puttock Ltd based on a 1972 Dorman 6LE 187 HP 11 litre in line 6 normally aspirated diesel engine. This drives a Macfarlane B46B alternator and is controlled by relay logic made by Puttocks.

George Puttock Ltd went to the wall years ago, but out of the ashes arose the Puma Generator Ltd company and some of the staff from the original company are still with Puma.

This was an eBay 'Spares or Repairs' purchase, the story being that it was a stand by set for a large house that had been converted into offices, and it failed to auto start last Christmas. As the house was scheduled for demolition they didn't get it repaired. This story is feasible as I've seen the planning application for the demolition ! I just hope that it wasn't some horrid mechanical problem  :bugeye:

A deal was struck to include transport to my place - the chap had what he thought was a suitable trailer and towing vehicle so funds changed hands.

Here it is when it eventually arrived

« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 04:10:50 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 03:23:32 PM »
I look forward to hearing more on this... :zap:

Keep the momentum going.. :coffee:
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 03:23:45 PM »
Now the 'suitable trailer' was initially a bit of an issue as he had somehow to lift the set two foot in the air to load up. Then when he coupled up to his Navara the front wheels came off the ground  :clap:

OK change of plan - need a lorry, and NO I'm not funding alternative transport, a deal is a deal  :med:

He struck a deal with a local haulage company and this morning, in torrential rain, it arrived and was safely plonked on the floor in the Tractor Shed to let me have a look at it in the dry.

Old equipment like this tends to get a bit damp and electrically leaky, and to prove my worst fear true, I was measuring practically a dead short between any phase and the chassis. This is not good news  :bang:

Mentally accepting that a long drying out period was going to be needed, I started stripping off the output cables that had just been cut by angle grinder - 50 sq mm csa copper cables !

Imagine my relief finding that the 'neutral earth' link had been left attached - phew - what I was measuring was the DC resistance of a winding on a massive alternator ie practically zero. With the link disconnected there is in fact remarkably good insulation resistance 'phase to chassis'  :clap:

The cabinet still needs a good drying, and I've left it with a 60W light bulb in overnight as the tubular cabinet heater that it is fitted with is open circuit.

It's a 24 volt starting system, but the pair of '644' batteries that came with it are pretty useless, not even registering on my 'Cold Cranking Meter' whereas they should be 650 CCA. A replacement pair are on order due for delivery tomorrow (Friday)

« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 04:17:29 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 03:41:34 PM »
It's going to be great fun working out what the relay logic is doing - and I may well not as I have a feeling that I have a brand new 'Deep Sea' generator controller stored in one of my containers that came with a generator that I sold years ago. I'll go hunting tomorrow

Puma had a record of this generator but no documentation except a .PDF of the relay board, but not it's interconnections. Still this will be a good starting point.

These things monitor things such as oil pressure, water temperature, manifold depression, battery volts, main supply volts and loads of other parameters and implement starting sequences that cope with up to (usually) three failed starts.

Have some pictures:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Will_D

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 04:57:25 PM »
Andrew, Oh NO!!, Not again!!

Not another massive project, please confirm that the pigs will be alright?

Looking forward already

Will (struggling with a controller upgrade for my CNC mill}
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 05:23:21 PM »
Well Will, it was pretty well inevitable, and after all this is merely a sub project as an adjunct to the Induction Furnace resurrection.  :lol:

It turns out that I DO have a Deep Sea 3110 controller - or at least that what reading emails from 5 years ago leads me to believe, and from the documentation that I've down loaded it looks pretty well ideal  :thumbup:

Still need to mine into the container tomorrow to 'press the flesh' !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mattinker

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 06:07:40 PM »
LIKE!

Offline modeng200023

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 02:11:47 AM »
I do envy you and your toys

Offline Sea.dog

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 04:09:09 AM »
Why do things by halves?  :lol:


Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 04:50:54 AM »
Ironically I had just pulled the two still wrapped up boxes that were deposited in the container in 2014, and opened the smaller one to indeed reveal a Deep Sea 3110 controller installed in a wall box but unused WHEN WE HAD A POWERCUT  :lol:

So pictures will follow when electrons start flowing again. At the moment on iPad using mobile phone as WiFi hotspot.

Of course I had the roller shutter open when this happened and as heavy rain is threatening had to manually drop it with its chain to avoid soaking the Puma again. First time Iíve had to use the chain, by heck it takes forever.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 09:38:10 AM »
So power came back on after a couple of hours, but in the process seems to have fried my electric gate controller  :bang: Much time wasted trying to diagnose sensor problems with a gale blowing, horizontal rain, and diagrams blowing all  over the place and getting soggy. Gave up and ordered a new controller card so no food next month  :(

Meanwhile big lorry dropped off the new batteries so they are now on charge awaiting time to do a test turn over of the engine.

So the Deep Sea 3110 controller: I forced my way into the rear of my container and brought out the two packages deposited there about five years ago. Reasoning that the smaller one was likely to be the controller mounted in its housing, and the larger one the contactor power fail change over chassis I unpacked the little one.

Logic worked (this time) revealing a brand new 3110 in a nice metal enclosure with what is probably a dedicated power supply (yet to investigate) tucked in the back.

So almost certainly I will retro-fit this control and eliminate the relay control of the original Puma thus simplifying the wiring considerably.

I want to be able to crank the engine over having made sure that there is no chance of it starting, to circulate some oil and check the the oil pressure comes up ok before letting it actually run.

To do this I need to investigate the alternator a bit more - it is internally excited and so far I am unclear where precisely the AVR (Automatic Voltage Control) is located. There is a grille covered clip on plate on it's side with 'something' electronicky with at least a fuse on it's pcb that I can spy in there. Once the engine is turning it will generate volts and I'd like that to be under my control at the time  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 10:57:43 AM »
So a bit more prodding and poking this afternoon:

First that Alternator Grille : It turns out that it just un-clips and the entire circumference of the alternator is uncovered revealing as suspected, the AVR. Now allegedly this alternator is made by MacFarlane despite not bearing their name anywhere that I have yet found, but the AVR is most definitely made by Markon (another alternator maker) and is an MS1/B 036-060 AVR. All looks in pretty good condition, and the (hopefully) class F insulation revealed in the exciter alternator looks excellent.

Then chasing some engine wiring:

A/The engine seems to have a heat exchanger oil cooler that has an electrical conduit emerging from it carrying a pair of wires, so either a temperature switch or analogue sender I suspect.

B/The 24 volt charging alternator has a remote regulator and it's wiring looks a mess - it will be tidied up or replaced by an integrated one.

C/There is a large 'universal box' bolted to the chassis holding a pair of heavy duty relays - I suspect that these are for the fuel solenoid (which is massive) and the starter solenoid as none of the other control relays look man enough for these jobs.

. . . so the fun continues  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline hermetic

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 02:21:01 PM »
I am sitting with beer, popcorn, and baited breath......................This is going to be a good one! You could even do one of those " Diesel genny, first start this millenia" YouTube videos. I must admit I am a bit of a sucker for them. GO ANDREW!!
Man who says it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2019, 04:25:35 AM »
Very interesting project.

That is one hell of the size for domestic use, we had a Lister in 1970:s till 80:s and it was in the farm, milking machines and lall - single cylinder diesel, maybe 3kW.

I am interested in starting, running and shut down sequences. Never seen that big generators in close and personal.

Pekka

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 07:30:02 AM »
So this morning I thought that I had better make sure that my Forklift will actually pick this beast up - I don't want to have to employ contractors to shift it about. My Hyster is rated at 2.1 tons and just the Dorman engine is said to weigh 1.15 tons according to the literature I've found.

Pleased to say that it did - forks set wide as possible as the balance isn't easily determined - but 'up she went'  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 07:41:32 AM »
So the next thing to do was to see if she would crank over and hopefully shift a bit of oil about before actually letting her fire up. So I firstly removed all the existing wiring from the fuel solenoid and the starter solenoid, and jury rigged a wire to the starter solenoid, having wired in the new pair of batteries that came yesterday.

Dabbed the starter solenoid wire to + 24 volts and zilch, nowt, nothing  :bang:

Removed the cover from the back of the starter motor that includes the solenoid, measured the coil at 6.7 ohms which seemed reasonable, worked it by hand a few times and tried again. She turned over smoothly and easily with no horrid noises but no oil pressure at cranking speed.

OK in for a penny, in for a pound ! I wired the fuel solenoid to a switch, proved it operated AND released (want to be able to stop!) and then went for a 'first start'

She started very quickly, produced a small puff of black smoke then the exhaust quickly cleared -

SHE RUNS !

The alternator output is isolated and at the terminals she was producing spot on 415 volts phase to phase, but this is unloaded of course.

So she is basically a runner and now needs loads of cleaning up, pulling all the old wiring off, and wiring using the new Deep Sea controller. But now at least I know I've not bought a complete lemon !



« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 08:30:11 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 08:08:03 AM »
Whenever I have to find the balance point of something like that I lift one end then roll a pipe roller under it. Move the pipe along until it teeters when I let it down and mark the pipe location with a paint mark.

Let me know if you need any control gear Andrew. I have panel switches, 24v supplies, relays, timer relays and a selection of contactors.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2019, 08:46:05 AM »
Great build up to a successful run...

Now let's see it produce lectrick..... :zap:   :D
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2019, 09:53:45 AM »
Many thanks for the offer Pete  :thumbup:

So where to start? Well first I needed to clean off the accumulation of vegetation that had settled on the rocker covers over the years. Initially I tried the workshop air hose and a hand brush but was getting nowhere fast, and what I did get off of course was on the floor in the Tractor Shed. Better to move it outside and bring up the big guns in the form of my diesel 'road compressor'

Worked a treat and had the advantage of blowing off some of the flaking blue paint that is going to have to come off anyway before it gets a new coat.

Ran it up again when returned to the tractor shed, and the only issue that I had was a slight oil leak from the nylon oil pipes that I presume directly feed the rockers. Self inflicted I suspect when I balanced the silencer up there for transport. Nipped up the fitting and we'll see next time it runs if it's cured !

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mc

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2019, 10:02:40 AM »
I did wonder what your next project was going to be!

I recognise that type of starter. I've not seen one for a long time though. They do have a proper name, but I can't remember what!
I want to say coaxial, but that doesn't look like it's got a sliding armature. You get a version with a sliding coaxial type drive gear, but the name escapes me.

They were used for big engines with big starting loads. The last one I seen was from a big 80s combine, and the only place I've seen a coaxial was on a hydrostatic forklift that took a lot of winding up even thought it only had a 3 cylinder perkins!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2019, 01:53:41 PM »
I was amazed what a good condition the commutator segments were in  on the starter!

Rain all day forecast for Sunday so I may try pulling the charging alternator off for inspection. The remote regulator is a CAV 440a which I think is a 60 or possibly 80 amp unit. it has three wires from the alternator (3 phases presumably) but oddly also has a lead going off to a sensor in the head water jacket, as well as a pair to the remote charging ammeter which are understandable. All it's connections are pretty nasty and corroded.



Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline AdeV

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2019, 02:02:49 PM »
I recognise that type of starter. I've not seen one for a long time though. They do have a proper name, but I can't remember what!

The only type of starter I know has a name that isn't "starter motor" is a Bendix type - but I doubt it's one of those.


but oddly also has a lead going off to a sensor in the head water jacket

Possibly to unload it if it senses an overheating engine? Or maybe it limits the output until the engine is up to temperature?

Looks like your pressure washer needs a wash too! (Mine does as well - it's still covered in pigeon crap from when we moved in here 3 1/2 years ago!)
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2019, 02:04:32 PM »
Ade, the 'pressure washer' is a two tool road air compressor, but yes it does need a bit of TLC  :lol:

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Kjelle

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2019, 05:53:29 AM »
I like!

Offline mattinker

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2019, 06:31:10 AM »





Like!